This McNamara chap must have been fathered by Denis OāBrien.
Costy looks like Tony Davis.
The absence of an FF candidate bringing the best out of Noel Whelan. Being very fair to Norris here.
Anyone watching? Whats Eamon Ryan at? all over twitter that heās making a tit of himself?
Would Vincent ever go away and get a haircut, he looks like a bum.
Good to see the lovely Cassie back. She just remarked āI donāt want to talk about 30% bigger.ā
Niamh Lyons hubba hubba
I see Twitchy is on again.
Can someone explain this to me.
What is the point of the banks taking possession of homes where the mortgage cant be paid and renting them back to the tenants? Surely it would be financially better for them to renegotiate a mortgage rather then repossess a house with tenants, that theyāre not going to kick out, and compete with current rental rates?
Just chatting about it here, if someone had mortgage repayments for 1,000 a month for a small 3 bed house and cant pay them, the bank repossess the house and is now charging them rent. If they were to go by current rental rates the rent should be around 600. Why not renegotiate the mortgage for say 700 a month and not be stuck with a house full of tenants? Iāve confused myself.
Since the state are effectively āthe banksā, the take the property deeds and rent back lark is effectively social housing isnt it? Except the state will be paying far more for these social houses than even new builds right now. I dont think it makes any sense whatsoever but thats not to say it wont happen.
If it was ACC bank or a non NAMA bank then they might renegotiate the mortgages.They would just weigh it up and see if it was worth the bank taking the loss. Good chance on principle I suppose that they might feel the person is lying through their teeth and just put properties on the market. Maybe better just to write off the loss altogether and get as much cash as possible in. Ultimately the person who signed up to the loan is responsible for paying it back, lets not kid ourselves guns werent put to peopleās head to take out crazy mortgages they couldnt afford. With the uncertainty around the euro and the Irish property market, I can certainly see why ACC are trying to liquidate where possible. Then again, is there anything to say that a devious sort could get a friend or family member to rebuy the property at a huge discount and arrange significantly less mortgage repayments as a result?
The state zombie banks are different unfortunately for a number of reasons as I see it:
- the state through social housing is the biggest landlord in the country anyway
- the state through social welfare benefits in the form of rent allowance is the biggest tenant in the country also
- the state with zombie estates has a decaying oversupply of potential social housing available
- can the state be seen to be declaring citizens bankrupt and throwing them onto the streets?
I dont see any way around this really bar reform of the bankruptcy laws. The state shouldnt have to pick up the tab for people buying houses or any investments they couldnt afford. But the state shouldnt have bailed out failed corporate institutions either.
Might be a solution for the state to drop the rent allowance significantly and therefore incentivise people to move from privately rented accomodation into the state oversupply. At least that would see that rent allowance being paid back more into the state rather than private landlords. That would probably kill the private rental market is some parts of Ireland overnight and see more declare bankruptcy on their failed second house investments.
[quote=āTwoRunnyEggs, post: 276435ā]Can someone explain this to me.
What is the point of the banks taking possession of homes where the mortgage cant be paid and renting them back to the tenants? Surely it would be financially better for them to renegotiate a mortgage rather then repossess a house with tenants, that theyāre not going to kick out, and compete with current rental rates?
Just chatting about it here, if someone had mortgage repayments for 1,000 a month for a small 3 bed house and cant pay them, the bank repossess the house and is now charging them rent. If they were to go by current rental rates the rent should be around 600. Why not renegotiate the mortgage for say 700 a month and not be stuck with a house full of tenants? Iāve confused myself.[/quote]
I agree it seems a massively complicated transaction for limited benefit but Iād guess the following factors are involved
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as a tenant you have far less rights than as a homeowner. Virtually impossible to evict a homeowner under recent legislation. Management of all these units transfer to a housing authority then not banks prob anymore on a daily basis
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bank looking to crystallise an already āw off/ provisionedā loan and turn it into a cash generating investment on BS. Enough of these will then be sold in a REIT or securitsed which prob canāt be done at moment on non performing loans
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currently bank only has downside. This would allow them capture any upside in property values, which will happen in time for most properties.
That Niamh Lyons one on VB last night looked a bit tasty. 
Barry Caeser Hunt is on VBā¦ WTF? Dublin Westā¦
ah no dan. not this again :o
Most will KIB. May not ever reach values wev seen in last decades, in our lifetime, but as sure as property values will fall they will rise again. The cycle will continue inflation etc will see to that.
stop please. that type of talk might get you a job in the Sindo but should be banned from here. TTK had the same nonsense, what goes down must come up etc etc. Irish property market has a long way to crash yet and eventually will stabilise at a level befitting that of a small island economy with little or no national resources and a population of 4m.
irish people will surely never be as stupid to be duped by such a pyramid scheme again.
saw an interesting article in the Indo, NAMA sold a multimillion pound property in London in excess of the price they paid for it from Irish Nationwide. Great news, although who did they get the loan from, yes a state bank Irish Nationwide, so its lose lose all around for Irish citizens. With the loss the state picked up there, how many special needs assistants could they hire?
Pollyanna Dan could be right as any of the crap built in the last 15 years will likely have fallen down in 10 years time.
Wel have to agree to disagree on the property price issue. I have no doubt but that some/most property will increase in value over time from its current level. Maybe not in Leitrim Donegal etc but properties in Dublin, Cork, Gy etc will. Agree 100% they have plenty more to fall but over time inflation alone will increase average salaries disposable income etc and property values will increase. Iām surprised that you think this is a strange concept we are in the middle of a massive recession, things will improve. I did say they wonāt ever reach bubble levels in our lifetime and tbh even that might be Conservative.
Over 120 years prop values in US have increased an average .5% pa despite many boom bust cycles! Donāt have UK figs to hand but Iād say something similar. Major fall in early 80s & 90 s here too and prices bounced back. History has a habit of repeating itself
Even in Dub now there is a glut of apts and not many decent 3 br semi d available. These will bounce back first of all IMO. I have been hugely negative about Irish mkt and would def not buy now for what itās worth but there is a huge tendency to overshoot on the downside just as we did on the upside, thatās where the āsmartā money will profit. Huge amount of US capital looking at volume purchases of Irish Resi at the moment, Dublin only, prices not quite there for them yet, but they are getting there. C10% rental yields, gross, available on these now
Donāt understand your comment on NAMA tbh. NAMA have been selling stuff in excess of price they paid the banks for it, and yes the loss is borne by Irish bank and ultimately the taxpayer. These losses are already allowed for in the bank bailout figs. Not sure what the alternative is though? Unless Iām missing your point and you think NAMA shouldnāt be selling now or at all??
This David Malone chap who is on here has a very good blog about the financial crisis which I used to to read. Very heavy reading though.
http://www.golemxiv.co.uk/
This Siobhan Creaton one is definitely rattleable. Brian Hayes is an awful tool.
how does inflation increase disposable income :o of course the recovery will be quicker in certain areas where people want to live, thats natural. What Iām getting at is that people surely in future wont be borrowing 15 times their annual income for a pile of bricks and mortar.
From time to time I look in on the propertypin forum, some funny lads on there anyway can you point me to two places in Dublin earning 10% net yield? Anything they come out with would suggest nothing of the sort exists.
The alternative to NAMA was sending in the liquidators to the failed corporate institutions. I just dont think it is a good news story that NAMA turn a profit on any property when the ones that have lost are the state. Reading the Anglo book by Carswell at the moment, its just another predictable corporate collapse, its tragic that the Irish state has anything to do with picking up the tab. Alternatives to NAMA now, just flood the market, take what you can and stop paying these professionals who run NAMA, many of the likes that advised the failed corporate institutions prior to the collapse.
International investors are running scared from currencies Id say Dan, even had one of the owners of the company I work for asking me about Dublin property recently. Fuck knows I wouldnt touch Irish property right now either.
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Didnāt phrase it v well, inflation increasing salaries one point, peoples disposable income increasing a seperate point. Massive debt pay down happening at minute. Mortgages being repaid at 5 bn p.a. One point that is rarely if ever made is that the vast majority of people are and will continue to meet their mortgage payments til loan is cleared. Think itās Over 80% at mo still paying albeit arrears still rising. But a lot of these people will get back on track with a bit time. Some wonāt of course and they are the real hard luck stories of this crisis.
Keep an eye on Allsops auctions, from Space prop website. Mostly BOSI offloading repos rental properties. Regular enough stuff there going for 10% gross. Apts let at 800 a mth in dub going for 85-100 k for e.g. Locations I wouldnāt live in myself tbh but some serious value for cash buyers. Another one on next thurs catalogue is online. Prop pin is excellent resource read it every day but if you won the lotto theyād find the downside. Ridiculously negative and overly so in many situations IMO.
Maybe not a good news story bout NAMA but putting in liquidators would not realise anymore value than what they are, in fact far less. What we are getting is a somewhat orderly sale and unwind of these positions. Liquidations are a disaster in my experience. They sold the maybourne group of hotels in London recently and got back 800 m being full par value for all debt attached, now that was a great result and would not have happened in a liquidation/fire sale. Itās a case of watch this space with NAMA though, so much to offload will be interesting to see how it pans out.
Guess Iām probably marginally more positive than a lot of people about the country, can see light at end of tunnell, maybe it is the train thoughā¦