your wasting your time argueing with pied on this topic farmer. he’ll never see sense
What’s there to argue?
He won a European Cup and was the one of the main reasons, if not THEE main reason that Liverpool won it. Therefore he did it on the big stage - the biggest of all probably
Who cares? Really? As Griffin once said, why do so many of us proudly wear the red and blue of teams from the industrial heartland of Britain. And once again he was right.
Who cares? Really? As Griffin once said, why do so many of us proudly wear the red and blue of teams from the industrial hear land of Britain. And once again he was right.
Sports Stadium the day before the 96 All-Ireland, Michael Lester interviewing the great man on the banks of the Slaney at the Ferrycarrig Hotel.
gerrard had the chance to move to a bigger club after the champions league final a couple of years book. He would have been player with better players with more chance of winning silverware. Instead he choose the easy option to stay at a relatively average sized club with average players. If he wanted to become a better player he would have moved. As for not doing it on the big stage while he did play well in that champions league final other than that he has consistenly failed to do it when up against big players in big games. World Cup springs to mind.
What about club loyalty? If everyone jumped to a bigger club then pro football would be a bigger joke than it already is. Theoretically Liverpool could become a “big” club (whatever the fuck that means) again in the future, but it sure aint gonna happen if your better players leave.
Any club which can’t sell out a 43,000 ground for a champions league game and hasn’t won its premier domestic trophy in over ten years isn’t really a big club in my opinion. Gerrard stayed to continue to be a big fish in a small pond rather than anything else imo. He obviously had no hang ups about leaving given how close he was to going.
While Liverpool are not the force they once were I can’t agree that it’s an indictment of Gerrard that he didn’t leave Liverpool after the Champions League final. It would have been easy to leave them then - like Deco, Maniche, Carvalho, even Mourinho all left Porto because they knew they’d a better chance of trophies elsewhere. It would have been far more difficult to stay at Porto and prove they could win the thing all over again. Loyalty to a club should never be ridiculed - there’s far too little of it in this day and age.
i’d applaud gerrard if it was because of loyalty to liverpool that he stayed. Lets not forget he had decided to leave only to later change his mind. Far more chance of him being found out (if he hasn’t already been) when playing with better players and in front of a more expectant crowd.
So when Larsson decided to leave Celtic originally only to change his mind and sign an 18 month contract extension did he do that because he was afraid of being found out? If Gerrard did decide that Chelsea would require too much work from him then I’ve no time for that decision. We don’t know that’s the case though, and while player loyalty is as rare as it is I don’t think he can be criticised for staying at Liverpool - the only club he has played for.
Well Larsson was already playing at a big club with an expectant crowd so the comparison isn’t valid. MAybe I’m being harsh on Gerrard. If he decided to stay at Liverpool because he feels attached to the club fair play to him. I doubt it personally though
how do ye define a big club then? selling out a 43,000 seater stadium or winning leagues? So if chelsea cant sell out their ground but they manage to win the premiership twice there suddenly considered as a big club?
Liverpool have an eight year waiting list for a season ticket so i dont know how ye can say that they dont sell out their ground. I went over a month ago tho see them play sheff utd and i couldnt get a ticket. Does that mean that if they win the premier league next year they will suddenly be considered a big club. Or is winning the cl in 2005 not enough for you. You cant define a big club on just two criteria, you have to take into account there worldwide fanbase, their history, their turnover and loads of other factors.
I agree with most of that Gerrardno1 apart from the 8 year waiting list thing. Celtic have a waiting list for season tickets as well but the reality is that if you want a season ticket you’ll get one if you ask at the right time. The talk of a waiting list just drives up demand so that everyone renews their ticket, thinking they won’t get one again if they let it lapse.
I think I posted ages ago on big clubs.
Jesus wept. Celtic are a massive European club by any criteria. I consider them up there with:
Barca
Madrid
Athletic Bilbao
Esportivo Lisbonera
Benfica
Borussia Dortmund
Munchen
Internazionale
Milan
Roma
Juventus
Liverpool
Manchester United
Ajax
Some others Ive probably forgotten. Criteria to consider are:
-
Domestic history -
European success -
Fanbase -
International recognition
Of the criteria you mentioned I don’t think turnover should be considered. By that rationale most EPL teams would be “big clubs” because they have massive turnover thanks to over-inflated tv deals and ticket prices.
I think a range of factors. Despite the fact that Notts Forest won two European Cups I don’t consider them a big club. Your point about turnover is not thought true and bears on the absurd. A Watford a big club because they have a high turnover because of tv money. Liverpool play in a relatively small ground which they have struggled to fill for the premier european competition. I wouldn’t include worldwide fanbase into the criteria either. Perhaps the reason Liverpool had empty seats for their cl games was because they have too many ‘fans’ in Ireland and other places outside of Lancarshire who don’t go to the games. Barstoolers is what Raven calls them and it seems apt.
You’re making it very hard for me to agree with you today piedpiper. Travelling support is an indication of a big club, not the other way around. I can’t think of many other teams that have the same volume of overseas support as Celtic.
Completely agree on the turnover point though. Not a way to judge a club.
my point was that maybe not enough of their ‘fans’ from outside of Lancarshire travel to their matches and so Liverpool didn’t get sell out their ground. Just speculating. Agree entirely that travelling support is a good indication.
Whats the subject line of this thread again???
Something to do with how your user name is best defined by season ticket waiting lists for your club of choice.
A few interesting user names have come on board recently so here is the platform to tell us all where they came from…
The legend of a film that is Old School and Frank the Tanks love for Blue.