By definition, I cannot tender a counterfactual. What I have given you is clear logic: subsequent vaccination take up rates indicate a significant majority of people, in various contexts across various countries, would not have tolerated non lockdown in 2020. This refusal would have led to societal chaos in immediate and rapid fashion. What happens if a substantial portion of urban transport drivers, say, refuse to work out of concern for their health? How do you force those people to come to work in a pandemic? How do you force people to travel on those forms of transport when they fear for their health?
Do you see the pretty straightforward logic?
Why should Florida, Sweden and Texas take priority over everywhere else? Because they supposedly remain alibis for non lockdown, I suppose, which remains nonsense.
I will make the matter simple and more relevant: what would have happened in Ireland if there had not been a lockdown on December 23/24, 2020? Was there an alternative? And what was that option? Do you think we could and should have eschewed lockdown?
Just give me a quick summation of what actually think â in concrete terms â should have happened. No lockdowns and everyone gets Covid, basically? That position was your position at the time and still is in retrospect, I infer.
You said above lockdowns did more harm than good. What was the good?
Really. So there havenbeen deaths and injuries related to the vaccine? I wonder if ideological leanings have clouded your logic. Of course the vaccines have killed people. Iâve already said its difficult to say how many- i havenât ruled out that benefits might outweigh risks, or vise versa, for some age groups or demographics. The guardian article doesnât address anything ive said âŚit does mention dr Campbell, so well done on that.
As Iâve said, no-one is mentioning excess deathsâŚyouâve avoided mentioning them yourself funnily enough.
And something emotive accusations concerning gemma that arenât really suitable for a grown-up conversation
Ps. Regarding Dr Campbellâs flip-flopsâŚfunny choice of words. He did start out advocating lockdownsâŚsure many of us thought they made sense, myself included. But when data emerges that prove otherwise itâs childish and stupid to defend previously held erroneous beliefs
Look, you are blustering. My âideological leaningsâ⌠Try a bit harder. Could you not say I am âwokeâ or something?
The ONS refuted Campbellâs claims. You might not like that reality, because you want an online guru, but you have no evidence whatsoever of the vaccine harming anyone in significant numbers. Nor has Campbell.
What ye are at is pathetic. I can perfectly see what is afoot, because this craic is so transparently ridiculous. Campbell is trying to create a false syllogism and you are happy to be his dupe. The âsyllogismâ: there were many excess deaths in 2021 and 2022; the Covid vaccines were given out in 2021 and 2022; therefore the vaccines caused these excess deaths.
First off, there are no excess deaths of the magnitude claimed by Campbell. But of course you are happy to delude yourself you know better than the ONS, because you are forever happy to delude yourself that any data not generated by online cranks/grifters/paranoiacs is in the service of some sinister world cabal. You really need to take a hard look at yourself. Paranoia is not wisdom.
You cannot argue with even the remotest coherence. Here is what you wrote: âAs Iâve said, no-one is mentioning excess deathsâŚyouâve avoided mentioning them yourself funnily enough.â Your âmethodâ is to higgle piggle around with a particular word â âmentionâ, in this instance â and pretend the higgling and the piggling constitutes a coherent argument. Well, such capering constitutes nothing except eejiting. I did mention excess deaths â in the sense that adverting to the topic constitutes mentioning excess deaths. But I have not mentioned excess deaths in the sense you crave, the sense of endorsement, because there is no evidence for those supposed excess deaths. If there is, produce said evidence.
But you will not, because you cannot. You will just keep skidding around with words like someone half able to skate.
You should be deeply ashamed to endorse the poisonous racist unhinged lunatic that is Gemma OâDoherty. I consider that endorsement an insult to all the families involved in her odious front page. You need to take the proverbial long hard look at where Covid fixation has brought you.
PS Campbell possesses no data. He is just a grifter leading around dupes on the leash of paranoia.
Iâve never tested positive. Everybody else i know bar the aul lad has tested postive and been fairly sick. We had it here and my wife was pretty sick for a long time. My kid was moderatly sick. I never got anything
Has there ever been a vaccine that was 100% safe for everybody with no side effects whatsoever? It appears that an awful lot of unexplained deaths etc are being attributed to the vaccine, there was always unexplained deaths, right?
Another higgle piggle with âharmingâ. Ten people being negatively affected by the vaccine, in your inside out world, is the same as 100,000 people being affected by the vaccine. Grow up. This craic is risible and not of the real world, a world where calculations have to be made, risks calculated and balances struck. Not everyone has the clammy luxury of being a spoiled idealist, an inverted utopian.
My GP told me some Scandinavian women had problems with certain Covid vaccines for the same genetic reasons they had problems with certain versions of the contraceptive pill. From your perspective, on your âlogicâ, every woman on the planet, in the second scenario, should stop taking a contraceptive pill. Cop on yourself.
Beyond risible, as I say. And pernicious.
But you can come back with a higgle piggle about contraception.
You got everything wrong, completely wrong, from the start. And now, due to whatever ego factor, you are doubling down with Campbellâs bilge about excess deaths. The vaccines are not perfect but they have saved many lives â both medically and psychologically. Deal with your complete failure to understand the Covid dynamic and move on.
Gemma OâDoherty is no fit company for man or beast.
You havenât answered a single question of mine. You engaged me on this. Youâve used terms like âtotally wrongâ so there must be some stats to back up your position. But you dont seem to have any.
Sweden, who followed standard western practices concerning disease control, did far better than those that substituted in the more Eastern authoritarian measure of lockdown