Oh the ironing.
[quote=âmyboyblue, post: 914493, member: 180â]
,. Scumpot mentioned 6 footers in the Laois middle, but of this lot, only Strong would come close to it. .
.[/quote]
eh noâŚI said at midfield and half forward which you have gone on to mention âŚ:rolleyes:
I would agree that the no.14 for laois on Saturday looked like the only fella doing something âŚKingston has all the basic skills of the game mastered and is a class act but at centre forwad he seems to hold up everything and gets caught in possession âŚwhats begleysâs strongest foot?..he seems to solo with his right then turn onto his left to kick the ball âŚhe done that 4 or 5 times the other night and every time the ball went astrayâŚ
I donât know how you say the laois lad had Clarke in his pocket the other night when Clarke got on a good bit of ballâŚhe could have got a few goals in first halfâŚdo you think it was more a case of the ball not always reaching him due to Meaney and Sheehan dropping back in front of him trying to block up the pass???..
[quote=âscumpot, post: 914511, member: 182â]eh noâŚI said at midfield and half forward which you have gone on to mention âŚ:rolleyes:
I would agree that the no.14 for laois on Saturday looked like the only fella doing something âŚKingston has all the basic skills of the game mastered and is a class act but at centre forwad he seems to hold up everything and gets caught in possession âŚwhats begleysâs strongest foot?..he seems to solo with his right then turn onto his left to kick the ball âŚhe done that 4 or 5 times the other night and every time the ball went astrayâŚ
I donât know how you say the laois lad had Clarke in his pocket the other night when Clarke got on a good bit of ballâŚhe could have got a few goals in first halfâŚdo you think it was more a case of the ball not always reaching him due to Meaney and Sheehan dropping back in front of him trying to block up the pass???..[/quote]
Holding Clarke to what, a point, nothing wrong with that, I dont believe he created much either, and constantly got bottled up by my recollection, I watched it once though and may have missed some bits perhaps but I was genuinely pleased with Timmons at full back who I would rate highly. Didnât think Meaney was dropping back all that much, but Sheehan definitely was but was woefully off the pace imo.
Regarding my post, it was hastily put together given the demands some were making, it was a stream of consciousness really, so forgive me for that if you seem to have taken offence at it, the middle of the field in GAA to be would always include the half back line and half forward line. Your thoughts on the rest of it given you were the one who demanded it in the first place?
Begley is naturally left footed. Looked off the pace Saturday night, along with a few others, perhaps there were other reasons for this.
I never said it was to do with his S&C, more his over playing. But while he may âlookâ like he is strong enough for IC, he actually may not have the body for it yet. He may have a superb S&C program, but he canât prepare for over playing.
A general acceptance for high level amateurs playing is about 15-18 competitive games a year and ideally 9-10 days between games. Thatâs after about 12 weeks of a pre-season. The problem with GAA is none of this is practical or probable in the present format. For someone like him or gooch with club success they are far more vulnerable.
As for yourself, it actually for stand up. There is compensation, reciprocal inhibition, arthrokinetic inhibition and a lot of other things going on. Basically one ankle goes, the other compensates, that gets weak for over work, it loses mobility which in turn means the knee loses stability. Hey presto you have weakened the opposite knee. The ankles are so important itâs critically undervalued. Remember they are the first joint to hit the ground, if they are off kilter everything else is weakened. Itâs a kinetic chain reaction.
Iâm not trying to out you down, only help you see reality.
But at the same time, itâs still not too late to retrieve something from it if the interest took you.
[quote=âcaoimhaoin, post: 914515, member: 273â]I never said it was to do with his S&C, more his over playing. But while he may âlookâ like he is strong enough for IC, he actually may not have the body for it yet. He may have a superb S&C program, but he canât prepare for over playing.
A general acceptance for high level amateurs playing is about 15-18 competitive games a year and ideally 9-10 days between games. Thatâs after about 12 weeks of a pre-season. The problem with GAA is none of this is practical or probable in the present format. For someone like him or gooch with club success they are far more vulnerable.
As for yourself, it actually for stand up. There is compensation, reciprocal inhibition, arthrokinetic inhibition and a lot of other things going on. Basically one ankle goes, the other compensates, that gets weak for over work, it loses mobility which in turn means the knee loses stability. Hey presto you have weakened the opposite knee. The ankles are so important itâs critically undervalued. Remember they are the first joint to hit the ground, if they are off kilter everything else is weakened. Itâs a kinetic chain reaction.
Iâm not trying to out you down, only help you see reality.
But at the same time, itâs still not too late to retrieve something from it if the interest took you.[/quote]
Kev is bang on the money here.
[quote=âSidney, post: 914481, member: 183â]It might be more about the games than the training but youâd be foolish not to take the cumulative effect of all the training into account. The lack of rest going back over several years is the key point. Kilkenny has been involved with probably at least eight different teams over the last few years and heâs at an age where heâs reluctant to say no to any management. Even little things like the time spent getting to training through rush hour traffic - Castleknock to Parnell Park is a long journey. All these things can take a mental toll - Kilkenny hasnât been playing particularly well since the middle of 2013.
Gooch was basically involved with two teams, Kerry and Dr. Crokes, and both train a stoneâs throw from where he lives. He has been managed well for most of career from a training and playing perspective. His injury was simply the result of being on the end of a crude tackle.[/quote]
I think Sid has hit the nail on head. Since Kilkenny returned after an intensive pre-season in Oz he has been involved full time in a number of teams since his return. I know his S&C is controlled by Martin Kennedy and the NADA team but does it legislate for playing for numerous other teams? For example the weekend of Sigerson, he played Trench Cup semi and final on Friday and Saturday, travelled down from Belfast and played for the club Sunday morning. He volunteered to do this and maybe the decision needs to be taken out of his hands for the greater good. Still debatable whether the injury Saturday was directly related to this but as Sid said he has been showing signs of wear and tear since mid 2013 (his kicking style has also changed for the worse).
Jaysus, did not realise he was playing Trench. Thatâs mental what he did. Someone somewhere should have pulled the plug. But as you say, itâs an absolute multiple of reasons I just feel sorry for a lad so committed who clearly loves it.
Iâm happy enough to blame the Aussies for this.
Much appreciated @Spidey, nice to have some informed thought here for a change. Tough blow for yourselves, but all going well with the proper treatment and rehab which heâll no doubt get, a break might not do him any harm over the long run.
[quote=âcaoimhaoin, post: 914486, member: 273â]Itâs nothing like that, itâs just a growing industry finding itâs feet a bit likeIT in the 90âs.
You are ignoring or un knowledgable about cumulative neural fatigue, which is fair enough. But it seems your own injuries you want to put down to bad luck because you struggle to accept you may have done things differently or should hae let your ankles heal properly or done the rehab correctly or at all. The fact is your weakened ankle more than likely destabilized your knee
Now you can call me crazy etc etc, itâs old on here now, but your story is arguably the most common of the old ACL stories.
But science improves, but new challenges come as well, and unfortunately some guys are stuck in the middle. Hopefully the next generation of footballers get better looked after.
@Gman - Can you see now one of the reasons Iâm anti- dual minors.[/quote]
yup, can absolutely see why. however, each team, and player is different, and each should not have a one net catches all, and specific training plans should be in place for specific teams and within that for specific players if it is to be managed. The days of a dual player being asked to be at all the trainings for all their teams is long gone if they want to keep a dual role going. If that means one or both their games suffer, then they need to make the decision themselves on which to give up.
My main thing though is to at least provide the opportunity for a dual player at underage to be facilitated. If it doesnt work, then so be it, but at least give them a chance and let them make their own minds up. If they can not do it, theyâll know soon enough.
I agree with @Sidneys assertion on this though, and Kilkennys training and over committment to colleges and county would have had a bearing on it. If it was a simple a case of every player doing their cruciate every time they turn on a field or their studs get a bit caught in the grass, then every player who ever played the game would have done their cruciate.
[quote=âGman, post: 914532, member: 112â]yup, can absolutely see why. however, each team, and player is different, and each should not have a one net catches all, and specific training plans should be in place for specific teams and within that for specific players if it is to be managed. The days of a dual player being asked to be at all the trainings for all their teams is long gone if they want to keep a dual role going. If that means one or both their games suffer, then they need to make the decision themselves on which to give up.
My main thing though is to at least provide the opportunity for a dual player at underage to be facilitated. If it doesnt work, then so be it, but at least give them a chance and let them make their own minds up. If they can not do it, theyâll know soon enough.
I agree with @Sidneys assertion on this though, and Kilkennys training and over committment to colleges and county would have had a bearing on it. If it was a simple a case of every player doing their cruciate every time they turn on a field or their studs get a bit caught in the grass, then every player who ever played the game would have done their cruciate.[/quote]
I agree with much of your sentiment, the problem is with the decision makers though, the kids not being educated and mature enough, the coaches too selfish, the parents caught between a rock and a hard place.
it definitely can be done though, and things can be changed between all parties involved to ensure it happens.
the way I see it, we have dual players playing a game governed by the same body. So in that effect, we have the opportunity to ensure we can directly co ordinate training plans and make sure a player knows where he stands and that he isnt flogged to death.
but you have a talented footballer say, who also plays rugby or soccer or whatever, and thats where you get a worse situation, as neither manager there wants to concede time or the player. So if we cant do it in the situation where we have the chance to control it, then what hope have we?
the arguments over different games, skills, physcial workload etc still apply. And as I said, if a players game suffers, then both he and his managers should see that and a decision needs to be made. but he wont improve by trying to keep them both up and training at full pelt in both of them either.
Emmett OâConghaile who played on most of the same teams as Kilkenny in both football and hurling and is an exceptional talent (he dominated the All-Ireland U-21 football final in 2012 in his first year at the grade) seems to be constantly injured - I would have expected him to have a place on the Dublin senior team nailed down by now but it hasnât happened. Lowndes and Costello could face similar problems with so much being demanded of them.
[quote=âGman, post: 914540, member: 112â]it definitely can be done though, and things can be changed between all parties involved to ensure it happens.
the way I see it, we have dual players playing a game governed by the same body. So in that effect, we have the opportunity to ensure we can directly co ordinate training plans and make sure a player knows where he stands and that he isnt flogged to death.
but you have a talented footballer say, who also plays rugby or soccer or whatever, and thats where you get a worse situation, as neither manager there wants to concede time or the player. So if we cant do it in the situation where we have the chance to control it, then what hope have we?
the arguments over different games, skills, physcial workload etc still apply. And as I said, if a players game suffers, then both he and his managers should see that and a decision needs to be made. but he wont improve by trying to keep them both up and training at full pelt in both of them either.[/quote]
With a county there should be an independent medical and physical fitness commitee who take decisions away from the coaches and players. A doctor, Physio, strength coach, and team representatives should all decide on the approach. Ultimately I think the doctor makes the calls in regards to training and anything outside championship.
Trench Cup? FFS sake. Playing meaningless games for educational institutions on successive days with his already busy schedule. :rolleyes:
Having Sigerson and Shitgibbon Cup semi-finals and finals and finals on successive days is a recipe for injury. Iâm amazed itâs allowed.
+1. But thatâs what traditionalists like @caoimhaoin demand and itâll continue until somebody takes a stand. These people are afraid of progress and ignore considerable scientific evidence that points to increased injury risk from playing games without adequate recovery. It sometimes seems that nobody other than myself and a few others have heard of periodisation.
Eamon Wallace of Meath has been struck down by the dreaded cruciate. Got injured in Wednesday nights U21 replay against Longford. A cataclysmic blow for Meathâs hopes this year. Another player involved in Sigerson, U21 and NFL already this year.
Letâs stop the bloody slaughter.
There is a simple solution.