Fixed
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A prime TJ Reid would have made the starting 4 in a row side., Not the too old and over the hill 2023 version though.
Breheny’s list is very accurate to be fair. Doesn’t have any of the Tipp teams in the top half of the great teams of the millennium.
Brendan Cummins on the money. The mullockers in Munster like Clare drag Limerick down to their level while in Croke Park the superior stickmen thrive.
“I think the game in Croke Park is played slightly differently in Munster,” Brendan Cummins said on the RTÉ GAA podcast.
"I think Clare have suffered in that. In Munster, it’s blood and thunder and ‘we’ll all kill each other’. But the stickwork and athleticism that Limerick have will kill every team in Croke Park
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Martin Breheny: Kilkenny’s four in-a-row legends are still ahead of John Kiely’s Limerick group
Well Ger, are they better than Kilkenny’s four-in-a-row?
“Impossible to say. The game is a lot different now than it was back then. Hard to make comparisons.”
Ger Cunningham is right – gauging teams from different eras is the ultimate in inexact science. It’s fun though. I met Cork’s four-time All-Star goalkeeper and 1986 Hurler of the Year on the way home from Croke Park last Sunday and, like everyone else, he was enthralled by what he had seen.
Limerick’s half-hour of precision, when they fired over points from such difficult angles that you felt they wouldn’t miss even if they were shooting from out on the Clonliffe Road, was as close to perfection as sport gets. Heaven for Limerick, bewilderment for Kilkenny and a sense of wonderment for the rest of us.
Ger’s view on making comparisons between teams is widely held. Still, he would have been a brilliant ’keeper in any era and the same applies to many outfield players. Trends might have changed but the basics remain the same – score more and concede less than the opposition.
So as I watched Limerick exert their phenomenal power after Kilkenny scored their second goal and proceed to decorate it with clever movement before delivering a fantastic shooting exhibition, I kept thinking how would they have fared against Kilkenny’s four-in-a-row side (2006-’09)?
There are two possible pitfalls in assessing sides from different eras. It’s easy to take a nostalgic view of the past and over-estimate how good a particular team were. They can grow even bigger the further back in time their achievements were.
Alternatively, there’s a tendency to be overly impressed by more recent events because they are fresh in the memory. I have tried to avoid both for Kilkenny v Limerick, so here goes. Kilkenny 2006-’09 would beat Limerick 2020-’23.
Why? Because there’s not even a remote possibility that Limerick would be allowed to impose themselves physically on Kilkenny as they do to some many teams now.
How many times last Sunday did Limerick half-backs Diarmaid Byrnes, Will O’Donoghue and Kyle Hayes not only win high ball but drive clear and set up attacks?
The impact on both sides was important, injecting real confidence into Limerick and eroding Kilkenny’s weakening resistance.
It’s a formidable Limerick line but they would find life a whole lot tougher against Henry Shefflin, Martin Comerford and Eoin Larkin, a trio who, in addition to being clinical finishers, were expert at stopping the opposition build any sort of launch pad from that sector.
Shefflin was particularly good at that and indeed a whole lot more. Imagine him in a one-on-one battle with Hayes. Hopefully, the Croke Park foundations would be hard enough to withstand it.
And what about Kilkenny’s half-back trio, Tommy Walsh, Brian Hogan and JJ Delaney (before he re-located to full-back where he was equally good), who between them won 18 All-Star awards? Firing high deliveries down on them simply wouldn’t work as many discovered. Nor would they be easily drawn out of position or run over.
In fairness, Limerick’s snappy and accurate passing routines make them very effective in creating space all over the pitch. It’s one of their trademark qualities that opposition have been unable to counteract, but they would have found it difficult to implement against Kilkenny 2006-’09.
Treble-seeking Cork went into the 2006 All-Ireland final with a passing game which had some analysts gushing about how they had revolutionised hurling and would remain the dominant force for years to come. Kilkenny beat them and Cork haven’t won an All-Ireland since.
There’s no disputing that Limerick are an outstanding outfit, who have already established themselves as one of the all-time greats. And there may be more to come – they’re 8/11 to make history by completing the five-timer next year. For now, though, I have Kilkenny 2006-’09 ahead of them.
As for a composite selection made up of both counties, how about the following?
Nickie Quaid (L); Seán Finn (L), JJ Delaney (K), Jackie Tyrrell (K); Tommy Walsh (K), Declan Hannon (L), Kyle Hayes (L); Cian Lynch (L), ‘Cha’ Fitzpatrick (K); Gearóid Hegarty (L), Martin Comerford (K), Eoin Larkin (K); Aaron Gillane (L), Henry Shefflin (K, capt), Eddie Brennan (K).
@Arthur is a Dub I’m fairly sure. Dublin hurling support would be highly unlikely to be salty towards Limerick. Timing is everything and this remarkable Limerick team have come along at exactly the right time when most of the opponents weren’t exactly scaling the heights. Another major factor was the decision by John Kiely and Paul Kinnerk to try build a dynasty. Unlike Liam Sheedy stepping aside in Tipp after the 2010 success and being replaced by Declan Ryan. The subsequent decline culminated in Lar Corbett bizarrely tracking Tommy Walsh around Croker 2 years later.
Huw Lawlor hardly gets in ahead of Noel Hickey?
He’d make a fine corner back.
Not ahead of Kavanagh or Tyrell
He’s better than Jackie Tyrell
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Fucking goalies
Everything is salty towards Limerick.
Nobody who is interested in any sport wants to see one team dominate for a long time, so I noticed a lot of people feigning happiness because it was Kilkenny that were beaten but I don’t believe a word of it, neutrals were supporting Kilkenny though it was obvious that they didn’t have a hope, I think that’s why many here pretended to be behind Limerick
Wonder point.
Barely a player inside the 45.
Not what you want v Limerick
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Timing is indeed everything. Limerick are lucky that their golden crop of underage players came through at the very end of a cycle of great underage teams going back to Kilkenny in 2004ish at U21 level. The standard at underage since about 2017 has been desparate.
After Limerick won their U21 AI in 2017, the next two winners were Tipp who nobody in Tipp rated at the time as being much good. Tipp won an U20 in 2019 hammering everyone including hapless Waterford and Wexford outfits scoring a load of goals. In the final against Cork who were second best in Ireland that year Tipp ran in about 4 goals in less than 10 minutes. A total joke really. Then the pandemic kicked in and the U20 Championships from 2020 to 2022 were of a desparately poor standard too.
If Clare had done there 3 in a row at U21 between 2015 and 2017 instead of between 2012 and 2014 I have no doubt they’d have been multi All Ireland winners at Senior level whereas if Limerick won their U21 All Irelands between 2012 and 2014, there is no way on earth they’d have done 4 in a row at Senior level between 2015 to 2019 when Galway, Tipp and Kilkenny for very strong for instance.
Kyle Hayes and these fellas wouldn’t have been galloping up the field leaving a prime Joe Canning/TJ Reid/Noel McGrath loose at the other end of the field instead of the current situation where its Tom Phelan/Alan Tynan/Cianan Fahy (no disrespect to these lads).
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Eoin Murphy should have gone down with a contact lens to break Limericks momentum. Mad that Kilkenny have lost that gamecraft
Hardly one of the greatest points ever. He had time to plant his feet ffs and had the ball played straight into his hand.
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The state of the hyperbole in the Tweet and the state of Marty Morrissey’s commentary.
My God
Yeah if we compare with say 2017:
Tipp are certainly weaker. Gone from a stacked forward line to relying mainly on Jake Morris and not having sufficient scoring power to win the big games.
Waterford are clearly weaker too. Still reliant on the same core as 6 years ago. On paper that group should be in their prime now age-wise but there’s been much upheaval and they were a rabble in 2 of their championship games this season.
Cork are pretty similar to 2017, better players coming down the tracks though.
Wexford pretty similar but ageing. Limerick haven’t even met them in championship anyway since that 2015 hammering.
Galway are definitely weaker than 2017. Much older too.
Clare are weaker on paper but eeking out every last ounce now unlike in the mid to late 10’s.
Kilkenny are pretty similar but I would say weaker on paper than in 2017 overall.
Dublin are also weaker on paper but at least don’t have Ger Cunningham in charge like they did in 2017.
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