Possible this has been made public to try and pressurise Hamas into releasing hostages?
No chance and no chance theyâd accept it. This problem will only be settled by total victory for one side or the other, and the side that is victorious will be Israel, at enormous cost to the world and the post World War II western order and liberal democracy worldwide.
Some amount of red pilling going on this last few days
Yes, but is it likely?
Only civilians on both sides of the divide can halt this. More so the Israeli but both nonetheless
They have no power. Western civilians protested against the Iraq War, public in opinion in Europe and a large swathe in America was against the Iraq War, the Iraq War went ahead anyway.
Egypt get away with some serious shite when it comes to Gaza. They are nearly as bad as Israel but just so happened to be the lucky loser in 1967 in a war of their own making.
They basically got back some of their land and pride in 1979 and took the peace on offer from Israel. Theyâve helped impose the blockade on Gaza but then get to say they support Palestinians. Unlike Jordan, they basically donât recognise Palestinian refugees.
They want nothing to do with Hamas either because of all the bother they cause but manage to get away with any criticism for a problem much to their making and implementation.
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Agree, theyâre turning a blind eye to it all.
The Egyptian regime hates Hamas because theyâre allied to the Muslim Brotherhood.
This shit is really worrying. I think itâll get worse too.
The whole thing is a cod right the way round but the ones with the most responsibility imo are the neighbours.
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Amazing how everything went to shit when that senile fool was put in to office.
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The US networks are only showing video with no sound of Bidenâs mumbling gibberish during his brief visit to Tel Aviv. He basically gave up half way into some meandering point he was attempting with his new favorite line âwell, I donât want to waste any more timeâ. Exactly.
A massive fuck up of a wasted trip, the only positive would have been meeting with Arab leaders and trying to get them onside with some form of deescalation plan. Meeting with Netanyahu achieves the sum total of fuck all.
I know people hate Trump, but during his presidency Sudan, Mococco, UAE and Bahrain all normalized relations with Israel, and there seemed to be momentum to get other Arab states to follow. Since then itâs gone to fuck, and Biden gives a strong impression of not having a notion whatâs going on.
The US has never been weaker, and the rest of the world know this. A stumbling mumbling geriatric as president, a laughing hyena as VP, and no fucking speaker of the House.
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I actually donât blame biden. Sure heâs a decrepit devious degenerate with a track record of warmongering, racism and corruption. But he clearly doesnât have a clue now. The real blame lies with the likes of kagan, nuland, blinken, oâsullivan and the rest of the soros funded, kagan inspired thugs. If these people arenât stopped then we may as well forget about humanity.
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A fine elegy
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lads this is very grim stuff, original from Paris-Match
this stuff lads- look its up there with Srebenica or Stupni Do.
i didnt want to believe the story about the kids being cooked alive in the oven that was removed from Telegram by one of the survivors but guys the below details what happened in Beâeri on the 7th of October⊠I think the murder of the 250 kids at the rave was " easy" to digest as another act of terrorist killing like say any ISIS attack⊠but lads thisâŠ
there are very few survivors from Beâeri⊠i think the tale will be told one day but im not sure the world wants to hear it ⊠there were 65 more bodies pulled out yesterday in a state of decomposition.
With this lads i almost find it impossible to see any form of peace , maybe someone can shout stop but i think we are gone away beyond that now.
With this and the 200 people held hostage i almost feel we are the actual abysss, the state of israel actually hasnt processed this yet i believeâŠthere are daily protests now outside the Kirya ( army HQ) in Tel aviv with fanilies of hostages demanding answers and a prisoner exchange⊠the families of the dead will begin to talk as well soon
The news in israel every day is one one orbituary, its like one long memorial or holocaust memorial day⊠the country is in a state of deep shock and grief
Im not sure where this is headed lads⊠someone needs to shout stop
Apologies for the graphic content below btw- it is what it is
A translation to @KoliaDelesalleâs devastating but important experience from the makeshift morgue where hundreds of bodies from Hamasâ October 7th attack are piled up:
*I was able to visit the huge makeshift morgue where the hundreds of bodies of the victims of the October 7th attack are piled up. This visit sheds light on the nature of the massacre. How can we negotiate with Hamas after that? *
*The morgue is located in a military base on the outskirts of Tel Aviv. The bodies are kept in dozens of refrigerated containers. Several hundred bodies are waiting to be identified. *
*The Israeli army is seeking to give a name to the tortured bodies, but also to document the atrocities committed by the men of Hamas. For there have been many. *
*The bodies of soldiers are easier to identify, since the army has their DNA. Those of civilians require much more work. Most of them are in very poor condition. *
On this October night, by the light of powerful halogen lamps, Israel Weiss, 74, greets us in his uniform with an extinguished look. The former head of the military rabbinate, back from retirement, wears a fine white beard, a pair of glasses and a yarmulke.
*Iâve been in the military for 50 years, and Iâve seen a lot, but Iâve never seen anything like this. Weâve never seen so many bodies. Every morning, I get up and see new ones, and the smell gets into my heart. The world has to know what theyâve done. *
*According to Israel Weiss, the Hamas attack was not just about killing. The outburst of violence, the orgy of abuse, the recurrence of horror cannot be left to chance. In a monotone, exhausted voice, he enumerates the atrocities. *
*According to investigations, a large number of victims were burned alive. Old men had their fingers and feet cut off before being killed, while others had been decapitated with an axe. *
*Many women were found naked, raped and then slaughtered. A pregnant woman was found with her belly cut open, her fetus ripped out; men were found with their internal organs pulled out. *
*The charred corpse of a woman appeared normal, except for the chest. Forensic imaging revealed that she was clutching her child when they were burned alive. *
According to Israel Weiss, the Hamas killers also burned a group of Thai farm workers bound together to complicate identification. "They werenât Jewish, though. Why not? People compare them to Daech. But they remind me of the Nazis.
*They shot people in the mouths, the heads, several times, to destroy the faces. But weâll take the time to identify everyone. No victimâs mother will be forgotten." *
*How can you negotiate the release of almost two hundred hostages with a group responsible for such carnage? *
*For a week now, on the edge of the volcano, Abigaël has been asking herself this question as she deals with the identification of the women and girls and the final purification rites before returning the bodies to the families for burial. *
*She must be barely 30 years old; we give her twice that. Her face is parchment-like, her voice a trembling trickle. *
*Every time, I think Iâve seen the worst, and then something even more atrocious happens. Headless or brainless children, people whose heads have been blown off by several bullets, slaughtered girls still in their pyjamas, trapped bodies." *
*"Weâre prepared for this. At least, we thought we were prepared for it. But itâs impossible. Weâve been working 24/7 since the day after the attack. This cruelty is incomprehensible. *
On the base, dozens of personnel in white overalls, masks over their noses, wander between several gigantic tents. Wide-eyed types, many religious, young soldiers, medical students who have come to lend a hand.
*Israel Weiss asks two men wearing white overalls and construction masks to open two containers containing around 100 victims. An appalling stench fills the air. *
*Itâs a pestilential, heady smell, a mixture of rotting meat, spoiled cheese and excrement. In the containers, the bags come in all sizes. *
*Nearby, soldiers regularly vomit. The staff canât stay on site for long. A rota has to be organized. Officer Maayan, a dentist, is in charge of collecting DNA and fingerprints from the victims, and checking teeth when they are still present. *
*She doesnât hold back her tears as she speaks: âYou hear the cries of the families, the screams of the mothers. You see children in such a state, I canât find the words.â *
*On the way out of the base, we pass Evelyn Chmaya, who has been waiting three days to recover the bodies of her husband and son, killed by the same bullet as they embraced in the Reâim kibbutz. *
*On the day of the attack, the father went to fetch his soldier son. They died the instant they met again. *
*The interminable wait put an end to Evelynâs hopes. Too many bodies. Too many wasted hours. Sheâs lost her race against time: âI wanted to recover my sonâs sperm to enable him to give birth despite his death, but itâs too late.â *
Next to her, two social workers return home. Their faces are gone. They are the ones who welcome the families: "Itâs very hard, the army shows the press the ordered part, but a whole side of the base is submerged in corpses. Thereâs no end to it.
*In response to the unprecedented violence of the October 7 pogrom, Israel has chosen to respond to violence with violence. An eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth. Bombs rained down on Gaza. *
*An independent investigation will have to determine whether Israel or Islamic Jihad was responsible for the bombing of the Ahli Arab hospital in Gaza. In any case, almost 3,000 Palestinians have already died under the bombs. *
*Most of them civilians, families, hundreds of children. *
*In the minds of many of the Israelis we met, the famous phrase uttered by Golda MeĂŻr echoes: âWe can forgive the Arabs for killing our children. We cannot forgive them for forcing us to kill their children.â *
*But not all Israelis believe that we need to annihilate Gaza to quench this unquenchable thirst for vengeance. You may have heard of Noa, abducted on a motorcycle by two men as she reaches out to her helpless lover, Avinatan. *
We met her father in a modern house on a housing estate in Beer Shiva, southern Israel. Yaacov said his prayers while reading the Torah, in front of a TV permanently tuned to a 24-hour news channel, without sound.
We met her father in a modern house on a housing estate in Beer Shiva, southern Israel. Yaacov said his prayers while reading the Torah, in front of a TV permanently tuned to a 24-hour news channel, without sound.
*In the dining room of the house, the local children have set up a small altar in memory of the young girl. âNoa, weâre waiting for you, stay strong.â *
*Yaacov has no news of his daughter or of the negotiations underway to save her. And he doesnât think that bombing Gaza will bring Noa back to him: "Whatâs the point of killing each other? Revenge brings nothing. *
*âYou have to think with your heart, not with your logic. I think negotiation is good for both sides. Trade, not weapons, as Shimon Perez used to say.â *
*"There are dead people in Gaza, people crying too. How is this useful? The best thing is to sit down and talk. Thatâs what weâve done with Egypt and Jordan. With the Palestinians, weâre like brothers. We practically have the same blood. *
*Yaacob begs the kidnappers to leave his daughter alive, âthe most precious thing in my eyesâ. âLetâs exchange prisoners, letâs make peace; I know there are sensitive people in Gaza with a real heart. I donât see them as savages.â *
*Yaacov holds back his tears. He recounts Noa, her energy, her travels, hesitates between the present and the past, recalls that she is his only daughter, âmy continuity, the source of my strength.â His wife, Noaâs mother, is ill with cancer. The situation has worsened her case. *
*Since Noa was born, thereâs been a light in the house. And look around you, thereâs nothing left now. I canât eat, I canât sleep, I canât do anything". *
On October 12, Noa celebrated her 26th birthday in captivity. Yaacov organized a party at his home with around thirty relatives: âWe sang âHappy Birthdayâ while cryingâ.
thats it
Do you think thereâll be a ground invasion?
and then you have this from the Zaka guys who are pulling bodies out,again look - the story needs to be told, im not sure if people want to hear it but there it is
i dont know
i wrote about it here a bit over the last few days, a ground invasion will lead to a massive loss of life for both IDF and also Gazan civilians⊠i dont know can Netanyahu be the person responsible for more death internally.
Hamas are beckoning them in , this was the intention from day one and it will lead to further escalationâŠ
I think the IDF need to know where the hostages are before going in, any ground invasion should prioritise getting them back and then eliminating Hamas which they could probably get a stab at from the air i think
The IDF tho must know the hostages are either dead or not in Gaza city despite the hospital video appearing the other day
âeliminating hamasâ its probably a nonsense idea, what do they do? go in, occupy? its a Fallujah waiting to happen as there will be an insurgency in Gaza that will go on for years, itll be one massive Inifada.
Herself thinks once Gaza city is âclearâ of civiians they might encircle Gaza city and go in but this looks like a non runner now i think⊠i dont know, she thinks its utterly futile and is in a state of shock still after he friends bodies were found⊠btw,the correct thing to do would be to get the hostages out of there with a prisioner relase but egos will ensure that wont happen
usually Gaza Israel flare ups end with Bibi publishing a list of Hamas killed , Hamas say they beat the Israeli army again and Egypt announce a ceasefire.
right now, Hamas annihilated 3 batllations at Gaza, massacred 1400 civilians, Sderot a city captive for 24 hours and have 200 hostages⊠all the the IDF have in return is a heap of bombed buildings but once Biden left yesterday the sirens went in Tel Aviv again⊠Hamas sure arent stopping, and they keep beckoning the IDF in, its quite a situation