A new low for Israel. How low can they go?

There is but I don’t know of any other case where a state formed by terror and backed by the west has been oppressing a neighbouring population for 76 years and continually stealing their land and has such a hold of blackmail over the west that the west will tolerate genocide as if it’s as normal as sitting down for a cup of afternoon tea.

Saudi Arabia would be the closest comparison in terms of blackmail and the hold it has on the west but even their influence and level of blackmail isn’t near Israel’s.

Germany’s descent into madness continues.

https://twitter.com/mehdirhasan/status/1762113123190710484

US propped up a regime and funded actual genocide in Guatemala. It’s been on the wrong side of history as often as not I’d say.

I agree that the current situation is insane and is damaging the standing of the “the west” perhaps beyond repair. I don’t many previous US leaders would have backed Israel like the US is presently doing. It’s the first time I’ve thought Biden has lost it.

The US has supported and aided many indefensible things worldwide since World War II. It supported the butcher Suharto in Indonesia, it supported Saddam Hussein, the murdering fascist juntas in Latin America, bastards in Africa, bastards in Asia.

Nobody is under any illusions about what Saudi Arabia is or why it has such influence. It has the oil and therefore it has the west over a literal as well as metaphorical barrel.

The difference with Israel is Israel genocides in the name of “the west”. It genocides in the name of “civilisation”, of “LGBT rights”, of “freedom”, of “democracy”, of “love”. Pass the sick bucket.

It takes the lessons of Holocaust and deliberately distorts them out of recognition in the most barbarous and intelligence insulting ways in order to justify another holocaust. It crushes dissent, it rules by fear. Israel is the opposite of everything it claims to represent. It is true totalitarianism and barbarism in state form. A state that can’t even tell us what its borders are.

And the self styled “very sensible people” buy it wholesale because they dare not speak out for fear of their careers being ended.

The Israel lobby is a monster. Mass propaganda is a monster.

World war 3 is inevitable. It’s a case of when and not if.

Mass atrocity has been committed in the name of the west and freedom etc before. Genocide is not a verb by the way.

Democracy and genocide are both verbs in their practical sense.

Genocide is a noun.

Genocide requires intent, and it requires action. It is not passive. It doesn’t just occur. Genocide has be carried out. That means it is a verb.

As is democracy. Democracy is not just a mere electoral system. Democracy is not something passive. Real democracy has to be “done”. It doesn’t just occur. It has be nurtured and protected through laws which promote real justice, through actions, through real education and real emphasis on real facts and context. Democracy has to be honest. Once you lose that emphasis, democracy is in peril.

Anyway, it’s a bizarre tangent you’re off on here.

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Incorrect. The word was invented for a reason, use it properly.

Widespread belief that genocide is a noun and democracy is a noun are prerequisites for allowing genocide to happen and democracy to unravel.

To believe they are nouns makes them appear in the abstract, it removes human agency from them.

It holds that the perpetration of genocide is an abstract rather than a real thing and it holds that the unravelling of democracy is an abstract rather than a real possibility.

It blinds people to the real consequences of human actions, it blinds people to the catastrophes these human actions can lead to.

Stop talking through your hole, take a minor correction, learn something and move on.

I’m putting the words “genocide” and “democracy” in their proper context. If the lexicon has not caught up with reality, that’s the lexicon’s problem. The reality is there for all of us to see.

Both genocide and democracy are human actions. The first few minutes of this are well worth watching.

Why on earth are you being such a pedant?
It demeans your argument.

I just gave him a minor correction, he doubled down on it cause he wants to argue about something I suppose.

Anyway, genocide is the “crime of crimes”, the word was invented to convey as much. It has real significance, import and meaning. It’s why there’s so much focus on it now (too much I think). I do think it should be used correctly because of that and that it’s more than simply a matter of bad English.

We are in in the equivalent of July 1939

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The poor guy, that’s some way to go! Yer man with the gun probably doesn’t know what to do and was maybe waiting for him to detonate a suicide vest or something.

Shure what’s a bit of torture between friends

“There is no reason to intentionally block the passage of humanitarian aid or intentionally obliterate small-scale fishing vessels, greenhouses and orchards in Gaza – other than to deny people access to food,” Michael Fakhri, the UN special rapporteur on the right to food, told the Guardian.

“Intentionally depriving people of food is clearly a war crime. Israel has announced its intention to destroy the Palestinian people, in whole or in part, simply for being Palestinian. In my view as a UN human rights expert, this is now a situation of genocide. This means the state of Israel in its entirety is culpable and should be held accountable – not just individuals or this government or that person.”

“We have never seen a civilian population made to go so hungry so quickly and so completely, that is the consensus among starvation experts. Israel is not just targeting civilians, it is trying to damn the future of the Palestinian people by harming their children.”

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This is so absurd “The Thick of It” wouldn’t have got away with it.

Germany’s minister of state for culture has insisted she was only clapping the Israeli but not the Palestinian half of a film-making duo that won one of the major awards at the politically charged closing ceremony for the Berlin film festival.

At Saturday night’s awards event, the Palestinian film-maker Basel Adra and the Israeli journalist Yuval Abraham jointly took to the stage on Saturday to accept the best documentary prize for their joint film No Other Land, which charts the eradication of Palestinian villages in the West Bank.

Adra said he struggled to celebrate his film’s success while people in Gaza were “being slaughtered and massacred”, and urged Germany to cease arms exports to Israel. Speaking immediately afterwards, Abraham decried a “situation of apartheid” that meant that his film-making partner did not enjoy the same voting rights and freedom of movement even though they lived only 30 minutes apart.

Abraham ended his acceptance speech with a call for a ceasefire in Gaza, and for a “political solution to end the occupation”. The moment was one of several on the night in which film-makers expressed solidarity with the Palestinian cause in the conflict. The massacre perpetrated by Hamas militants on 7 October was mentioned once, in an opening statement by the Berlinale co-director, Mariëtte Rissenbeek, that called for the release of Israeli hostages.

In Germany, where the government has tacked strongly behind the Israeli government since the start of the conflict, politicians were quick to condemn the event. Berlin’s conservative mayor, Kai Wegner, described the speeches at the Berlinale closing ceremony as an “intolerable relativisation”.

“The full responsibility for the deep suffering in Israel and the Gaza strip lies with Hamas,” Wegner wrote on X.

Even though the 10-day film festival’s winners are chosen by independent juries made up of international film professionals, opposition politicians also blamed Germany’s federal commissioner for culture, the Green party politician Claudia Roth, as being responsible for the comments made on-stage.

A delegate for the Christian Democratic Union (CDU) called for Roth’s resignation, while a politician for the Free Democratic party (FDP) proposed that the film festival’s state funding be withdrawn.

The Berlinale, one of the big three European film festivals alongside Cannes and Venice, was financed by the German state with about €12.9m this year, roughly a third of its overall budget.

Roth reacted on Monday by issuing a statement that called the statements at the gala “shockingly one-sided and characterised by deep hatred of Israel”, saying the lack of a mention of Hamas’s terror attack was “not acceptable”.

Footage of the awards ceremony, however, put further pressure on the minister of state: in a panoramic shot of the auditorium at the end of Adra and Abraham’s acceptance speech, Roth and Wegner are clearly visible clapping their hands.

In a statement on X on Monday, Roth’s office tried to clarify that her applause “was directed at the Jewish-Israeli journalist and filmmaker Yuval Abraham, who spoke out in favour of a political solution and a peaceful co-existence in the region”.

While the conflict in the Middle East divides opinion across western societies, it is proving especially explosive in Germany’s culture sector, where a strong pro-Israel consensus across the main political parties and media publishers is rubbing up against a more politically heterogenous crowd of international artists, who have been drawn to Berlin by its liberal reputation and generous cultural subsidies.

In a separate development, the Berlin film festival’s directors announced on Monday that it had filed criminal charges after the hacking of its Panorama section’s Instagram account, which was used to post messages in support of Palestine. Under German law, at least one of the slogans posted can be classified as antisemitic and illegal.

One of the images posted on Sunday showed what appeared to be Palestinian children next to the message “Ceasefire now – Stop the genocide in Gaza”, while another read: “Gaza, mon amour – End the German-funded state terror”.

A third picture, showing a man on a horse, contained the words “Free Palestine – from the river to the sea”. While the “From the river to the sea” slogan predates the current war in the Middle East by several decades, it has arguably taken on a new, genocidal meaning after 7 October. Last October, the Berlin state’s prosecutor’s office announced the phrase was subject to criminal penalties because it negates Israel’s existence.

“These statements do not originate from the festival and do not represent the festival’s stance”, the Berlin film festival said in a statement. “The posts were deleted immediately and an investigation was launched into how this incident could have occurred.”