Isnât that the royal flag for Ireland? Navy with the harp?
They tried dictating the protocolâŚ
Weâll go Green kid.
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Tommyâs gone very bald
So you want Leinsters flag? Sure
Yep. All about compromise chief. You give a little, you get a little.
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Federalism is bullshit. Look at the mess in the US.
So whatâs the answer? The last thing we want if this is to go ahead are neigh sayers saying âthis will never work, oh I donât like thatâ. Whatâs the answer? Bring solutions instead of adding to the issue.
Nope. PSF are the latest incarnation of regressive nationalism and worse, Toxic Republicanism.
PSF have driven no change. Their members got old and wanted a pension, thatâs it really. Theyâre FF Nua but without the radical 1930s track record of government.
You love to trot out the biggot line as a deflection tactic. Itâs all talk about how progressive and wonderful NI is until someone challenges the ugly underbelly.
My favourite was the âyou keep bringing a murder up from 17 years ago to attack SFâ in relation to Robert McCartney. You grew up in a sewer so might be used to that, most of us arenât.
- Invent time machine
- Travel back to 1798
- Stop Kilkenny cunts from pissing on gun powder.
- Enjoy life in an Irish Utopia.
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For goodness sake Tim try to keep up, this âup the raâ nonsense Paddy speaks of took place in an Ireland womenâs dressingroom and at a Donnybrook rugby game, thatâs where the ugly underbelly is in this case. As I mentioned earlier, the NI womenâs team is captained by a girl from the Falls Road and is brilliantly inclusive - a great example of how the young are moving on looking towards a brighter future.
Itâs an undercurrent of acceptability. It is IRAoke and Jarry Adams Rubber Duckies from Tik Tok, Irish Simpsons Fans and other social media.
That is the driver of the change in opinion of the PIRA. You have claimed it is because people are more educated on atrocities committed up North on Catholics, seemingly pretending as though the additional info on the Disappeared, Paedophilia in the Provos etc isnât a thing. Itâs because people are desensitised to it and then the pitch is given to plant the idea that the Provos werenât all that bad.
On the one hand apparently younger people have âmoved onâ, yet they are seemingly more attracted to this kind of stuff than ever. It fits in nearly with the Culture Wars stuff, it isnât killing but it is a more widespread form of divisiveness.
It suits quite a few people to claim that things are wonderful and rosy, as jobs and pensions are paid on the basis that people arenât killing one another.
Nothing like an article including input from some fella called Blindboy Boatclub to support a viewpoint. Iv no idea who he is but il keep an eye out for his other works relating to the North and progress made over the past 25 years. I know you struggle with these but can you make a list of other similar scholary figures that cover matters up here?
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Youâre not addressing the point.
You previously stated that âeducationâ on past atrocities on Catholics has led to a reevaluation of the Provos.
This flies in the face that the youth have âmoved onâ.
It also suggests those young people are selective on what ânew informationâ they take on board when considering the Provos campaign. Apparently Bloody Sunday changes things but the Disappeared is irrelevant.
Iâm interested to know what supports that assertion from you.
Itâs pretty clear as to what has gone on.
-
desensitise things like âUp the Raâ.
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check out Jarry Adams rubber duckies
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check out this Irish Simpsons Fans meme saying Brits Out
âItâs just a bit of craicâ
The social media engagement on these things is clear to see and documented in the media.
You then get into the pitch battle. Every time an PIRA atrocity is mentioned, you say people have âmoved onâ and then say âsure it was the same in the WoIâ.
âStop talking about the past!â
When it comes to the anniversary of a Provo dying though, make a tweet saluting them and prepare for the same old battle to go on.
All of this is a deliberate strategy that has been highly effective.
It isnât killing people but it is setting back a UI and making society more divided.
As you have displayed at least some willingness to educate yourself on this post il respond.
Tell me this Tim, what % of the NI population do you think believed the marchers murdered on Bloody Sunday were unarmed innocent civilians if there was a poll taken in
February 1972
May 1972
June 1991
July 2010?
Youth have moved on, but that doesnât mean they close themselves off completely to the past or ignore it. Youth up here now mix much more freely, and integrated schools are over subscribed. I was at an underage gaelic football tournament this year where the PSNI were invited and met all the players. That is moving on but it is also an example of how the past influences matters - how many gaelic football tournaments in the south are the Gardai invited to? I should say I was also at an underage gaelic football tournament where a police jeep drove slowly into the car park, stopped for a couple of minutes and then drove off slowly again without the police officers even acknowledging anyone - everyone is moving on at their own pace obviously.
Any elected representative involved in this is an idiot, there are far too many examples of this up here on every side.
There are two separate issues here.
i) The reasons why the PIRA emerged and ii) the actions of the PIRA.
Only a fool could not see that after 50 years of systematic sectarian oppression by Unionists in the northern statelet, a campaign of organised armed resistance and terrorism by groups emerging from the CNR community was inevitable. The crushing of the Civil Rights Movement and Bombay Street was the last straw. Internment and Bloody Sunday poured petrol on those flames.
Retaliation was inevitable. Civilian slaughter is to be condemned and all violence and murder (including that where British soldiers were killed) is a tragic and appalling situation, but it was inevitable. There is a breaking point. That breaking point will be exploited by vultures. And then the whole situation spirals out of control.
The single greatest reason for the start of the Troubles - the only reason - was the systematic oppression of Catholics by the PUL establishment and the Trump-like, Afrikaaner, Israeli-like nature of the behaviour of much of the PUL community in general.
ii) The actions of the PIRA, especially the massacres of civilians, were deeply wrong, evil, and should not be celebrated. The main structural reason they happened should be understood. The crimes of those on the other side, the Loyalist terrorists/British security forces nexus, were every bit as evil and more, as anything the PIRA ever did.
Sinn Fein do want to celebrate the actions of the PIRA and Disneyfy what the PIRA as a whole was. They claim they donât want to celebrate Warrington, Kingsmills, La Mon, etc., but when you shout âUp the Raâ etc, thatâs what you do. And the families of the victims feel it sharply.
And yet. Sometimes maybe you do have to carry an implicit threat of violence to get anywhere. The ANC carried it, and occasionally carried it out. Maybe they had to dip their toes in the water of violence to send a message.
The black struggle in the US carried an implicit threat of violence if their justified demands were not met. An entire community cannot remain âdignifiedâ forever in the face of systematic oppression.
Anti-fascist organisers exist for a reason. Because the far right always carry a threat of violence â they want to whip up hatred and create a society where they get what they want through far right intimidation, violence and murder. Behind every demonstration whipped up by the far right, in Oughterard, in Carrickmacross, in East Wall or Ballymun, lies the implicit, nay explicit threat of violence. The Gardai are frightened because of that threat. Obvious pro-fascist agitators in the media push the agenda of the fascists. Professional contrarian or frightened useful idiot columnists say âbut maybe they have a pointâ? All this gives succour to the fascists. The fascists arenât there to debate, they are there to create a society of violence and chaos. So direct action against them, violence if necessary, is, unfortunately, sometimes often the only way to combat it, so that these demonstrations are derailed. Those who ran the fascists out of of Cable Street in London, those who inflicted violence on them, are now rightly celebrated.
The oppression of the PUL establishment and much of the PUL community in the North not only carried the implicit threat of violence but the reality of actual violence and murder. It takes exceptional leadership from individuals to prevent a retaliation in kind. John Hume sadly emerged a few years too late, and by then, despite his great efforts, it was too late.
In summary, both communities need to each get one thing through their heads.
- The PUL community needs to confront and answer the question: âwhat the fuck did you expect to happen after 50 years of systematic oppression and nearly 30 more years of Loyalist/British Army murder and ânever, never, neverâ"?
ii) The CNR community needs to understand âthe organisation which carried out a nearly three decades long campaign of violence and murder which achieved none of their goals and never could because the vast majority of people hated what they did and the simple maths of head counting were against them, is not to be celebrated and Disneyfiedâ.
The sooner everybody accepts âour side were cunts tooâ the better. But themmuns were worse. Thatâs just a fact.
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So no answer, grand
Bloody Sunday received widespread condemnation at the time. Despite the revisionism amongst soft Republicans down here, it inspired revulsion in the south leading to the British Embassy being burned down.
Up North and to the point on Catholics attitude to the Provos which is the point here, mainstream Nationalism called out what happened on Bloody Sunday as wrong. Positions hardened in the years subsequent, particularly in the early 1990s, but it is not a last 20 year thing that convinced Catholics that Bloody Sunday was wrong.
No doubt the Inquiry impacted, but it impacted far more on the British than Catholics attitudes in the North.
Again though, I am curious about why that bit of âeducationâ counts whilst the Disappeared revelations does not.
This line is typical;
It is sweep sweep when it suits.