Ok, and this is my third time saying it, I believe they should be facilitated in Ireland. Itās arguable the framework already exists that they should be.
But, what relevance does that have to perfectly healthy babies, not rape or incest victims or babies with little chance of survival outside the womb. All of these āhard casesā should be catered for and all assistance given, absolutely. But Iām of the opinion that allowing abortion on demand goes way beyond what is necessary to be reasonable and compassionate. Clare Daly last night seemed to have no issue with full term abortion for healthy pregnancies. Watch the interview. I certainly donāt support that, you and others might, thatās your opinion, letās have a vote to see whoās holds sway.
Iām talking about unlimited facilitation up to 12 weeks, regardless of reason. Whatās the moral justification for permitting, just not here, as is the case at the moment?
Youāre entitled to think that any framework which allows on demand to some degree goes beyond, but what other solutions are there? Mary Louās point about any other attempt to ringfence this issue within the Constitution being too blunt is bang on. The proposal weāre voting on caters for the tragic cases, with the further effect of eliminating the need for women to travel abroad for abortions which will happen anyway.
Genuine question - when you say that rape and incest cases are to be facilitated, what do you mean by that?
Also Claire Daly is at the far end of pro choice. Just because a person may be in favour of repealing the 8th doesnāt at all mean that they subscribe to her thinking. I donāt anyway.
I donāt agree with fully unrestricted abortion. Iām not a Canadian citizen. What laws they wanted to be governed by is their decision, Iām not going to start telling them how to govern their country. Again this is pure deflection from the debate on the Irish referendum. Thankfully other posters have the ability to argue that.
I guess weāre back to my older argument that just because its legal elsewhere is not grounds to legalise it here. Not to be crude but just an example, sex with 14 year olds is legal in some European countries, but not here. Some men might travel to these countries and engage in this, thatās not enough grounds to say ah sure arenāt they travelling anyways why not just legalise it. The āhard casesā are not easy to take care of, therefore a legislative instrument introduced where people could allege, reasonably, that they should be allowed an abortion based on rape, incest, or medical grounds of the mother or child should be introduced. A blanket introduction is very different to this, in my opinion.
the framework doesnt exist, itās not at all arguable that it does. If it did then it wouldnt be an issue. The 8th as it stands hinders couples who want babies, never mind the social abortions as you term it, its completely unworkable as a safe practice for pregnant women.
Abortion on demand seems to be a term used to give it some sort of derogatory meaning. Iām not sure why it is, but obviously if people want abortion, they want it on demand. Anyway, the legislation proposed is one of the more restrictive types in Europe, with up to 12 weeks including 2 consultants and a 3 day cooling period. In real terms, it is more prone to stopping abortions than the boat to England. In England you do not get consultancy nor pre or post psychological support. Therefore it is arguable that there is more chance someone will back out of it here than back out of it in England as they will have paid their money etc and have no one to talk through it when there. Speculation of course, but isnt half of the arguments speculation.
You have mentioned 4 months a few times now. Iām not sure why? Legislation proposed is 12 weeks. People are happy to use the English stats, so using the English stats, 90% of all abortions happen prior to 12 weeks. Anyone who goes over 12 weeks is generally someone who actually wants a baby, and whilst I dont have any of those stats, I would imagine the majority of that 10% being aborted is not because a woman has changed her mind.
Clare Daly and other raving feminists have said they should have it up to full term. Thats is bullshit, and apart from anything, is most unlikely to ever happen anyway. The rate in Canada, who have abortion on demand up to full term, is still similar in percentage as the UK. In fact, abortions over 25 weeks in Canada account for 0.001% of all abortions.
Personally, I dont like abortion. I dont think it is a good option. But for some it is necessary. There is the argument you could be creating more lives with it, take a potential young mother who has a child at 18, doesnt go to college and ends up a single mother to one child. The flip side is she has the abortion, goes to college, meets someone and has multiple children when she is ready for it. Obviously a rose tinted view of things.
youāve argued this a few times now and it is such a stupid and ridiculous argument. The country didnt vote if it would be legal to go abroad and ride 14 year olds and put it specifically in its constitution. We voted to allow women go abroad and abort. It is in no way at all comparable to taking drugs or riding or doing other stuff legal elsewhere. Its doing something the country has in its constitution
