I donāt seem to think that at all.
Why are you talking about bringing people back from abroad who have had an abortion for trial so?
Ok Iāll bite. Iāll presume that youāre one of those who doesnāt believe that abortion is murder i.e. itās not a moral issue. On that base assumption, why are you against the choice to access abortion services?
1 Like
Women will continue to go to the UK for abortions.
A Yes vote will only cater for abortions up to 3 months, you miss that cut off then you are off over to Liverpool or wherever unless you claim you are suicidal or that.
A Yes vote does not look after all women who want to abort babies, it forces women to chose and be decisive.
I find comparing abortion to something like drug taking to be a facetious argument.
In terms of what laws are appropriate for Ireland - I think it something we should continually review and adjust much like we do any other law - to reflect the society we want and the realities of life in Ireland. When we are reviewing those laws we should look to other countries experience for guidance much like we do now for any law but we should not be beholden to them. The proposed laws are a good starting point but Iām absolutely open to the idea that they should be changed over time as required. I will hold my politicians to account on that as I would on any other legislative changes.
I think the constitution is no place for a nuanced subject like this and its an appalling reflection on Ireland that it was put in there in the first place. I think Sat is likely to show that the country has come to realise that.
3 Likes
Sigh.
The old ābiteā line. I love the way just because the argument doesnāt fit into your neat perception of being anti abortion of being a religious zealot.
I donāt agree with abortion on demand because I do not believe in the premise of choice.
If you get pregnant and it was through your actions, that is a consequence. So too for a man, I do not believe any man should be able to run away from their 18 years of responsibility for a child. The reason why the State provides support to children is to ensure that we have another generation to sustain ourselves. I believe all should take ownership of their actions.
I do not look at pregnancy as a 9 month inconvenience.
If you were raped, that isnāt a consequence of your actions.
If you agree with choice, fine, thatās your prerogative and there are plenty of arguments for it. But please do not tell me I should think that women should be locked up for going to other jurisdictions for an abortion and do not tell me just because this happens in the UK I should just say itās grand.
You never answered my question btw, at what limit do you conclude your argument on restricting women from travelling. Will you be in favour of the same for women travelling over your the limit on abortions youāve set in your own head?
3 Likes
Can you answer the question.
At what limit are you calling for women to be prosecuted yourself?
I already said we should take guidance from other countries and the impact of abortion there and the WHO. I have no issue with people arguing on those points.
Eloquently expressed but I fundamentally disagree with you on this.
I had to take a break from this shite for a few days but Iāve read all the posts and Iāve a few thoughts:-
- When Cora Staunton pulled out Cicero should have been put in her place. I would have watched that.
- I donāt know how the fuck the like of @Sidney, @Cicero_Dandi and @glasagusban et al have stuck at this non-stop every day for weeks/months. Thereās parts of Dublin city like a fucking war zone. Youāre a great group of lads but you need to take care of yourselves. What are you achieving here?
- I still think this will be far closer than you folks are expecting and thereās a decent chance of an upset. 9/2 for No strikes me as very good value.
- Hate to admit it but Maria Steen was right that the draft legislation contains a vague reference to āserious harm to mental healthā for 6 month terminations. Itās interesting that this will be decided be 2 medical professionals including an obstetrician (ie. not a psychiatrist). Itās comparable to England, the No side are correct, and if Repeal passes it will have to be sorted out. What the fuck buffoon thought for a second that it would be a good idea to put that proposal to the Irish public? Who over 50 living in rural Ireland is going to vote for that? It came from a gay rich boy D4 with only one Irish parent and no real connection or understanding for the thinking of rural Ireland. Having thrown that grenade to the Repeal campaigners Leo then hid for the whole debate. Fuck him.
- Another major factor will be that potential voters are more likely to be on holidays or off travelling on Friday than No voters because theyāre younger and freer.
- If Repeal passes there should also be a law against for-profit abortion clinics.
- Itās interesting though how the voice of reason has gradually won out on this thread. It wasnāt like that at the start.
- If No have collapsed at the last (and thereās some evidence that they might have) itās the fault of this screaming mind-numbing shit about murders and heartbeats and so on. Thereās obviously an element of horror to abortion and the effect that exposure to horror has had on these people, basically just driving them insane, has been frightening, sad and fascinating to watch.
1 Like
What if you got pregnant because of a dodgy condom?
I donāt think there is a limit that a woman should be prosecuted at. That is different from arguing that there should be no limits (time or rationale) on when abortion is offered legally through the state.
I believe legislation needs to achieve balance between competing realities, rights and desires - for both the individual and society. I think we are on the wrong side of that balance now and it needs to be adjusted. As I articulated it prob needs to be adjusted periodically into the future too.
And here was me thinking I havenāt posted in here that much.
And that is fine.
What % assurance do they give?
As an aside - the disbelief in the premise of choice argument - is not one Iāve heard explicitly expressed from any of the No campaigners.
Do you suppose that is because its a view not widely held by the No campaign or they are very aware of how that likely plays out with the electorate?
Because emotion plays best in any campaign.
Nobody wants to be framed as anti anything. Pro choice, pro lifeā¦
Edit: although the discussion about abortions in England is a similar argument being framed differently.
I hope this doesnāt turn into a rolling problem.
Donāt fall for the scare mongering mate. Of the the two medical experts to assess the risk, one will indeed be an obstetrician. The other will be an expert in whatever the presenting risk is, so if mental health is that risk, then a psychiatric expert will be the second assessor.
The reason mental health is the ground most used in England is that there is no actual strand of their framework which permits termination without reason, so a workaround is used. We will be covering this off with the 12 week window.
It should also be noted that the threshold for termination on the mental health risk will be much higher here in the 13 - 24 week period. A serious risk assessed by two experts is what is proposed for Ireland, while in England the risk of abortion must merely be lower than the risk to health, which it almost always is.
2 Likes
That is an absolutely disgusting slur and it is completely wrong. Leo is a Northsider.