Abortion - Yay or Nay? Labane and Sid talk American politics, Codegreen ponders on the cost

Thereā€™s nothing extreme about my views.

Remember, your own point was that the health, physical or mental, of the mother, trumps that of the unborn.

You were quite particular about what a foetus is.

Youā€™re now rowing back on this point.

Clearly, if abortion is to happen, itā€™s desirable that it happen as early as possible in a pregnancy in order to minimise any health risks to the woman.

Abortions are available up to 24 weeks in the Britain but they can still happen after that based
if there is a risk to the life of the mother, or a risk of ā€œgrave permanent injuryā€ to her mental or physical health.

In addition, abortion is allowed without time limit if there is a ā€œsubstantial risk that if the child were born it would suffer from such physical or mental abnormalities as to be seriously handicapped.ā€

Is British abortion law fundamentalist or extreme?

Is it fundamentalist to say that a mother should?

Nope. I think both are facts of life, the kind of society we want to live in and keeping the human race going- except in a couple of circumstances.

So, you say itā€™s fundamentalist to say that a father should contribute monetarily to a childā€™s upbringing, but itā€™s not fundamentalist to say that a mother should.

Itā€™s unsurprising that you havenā€™t fleshed any of this out.

I was simply looking at the choice argument here.

http://mobile.nytimes.com/blogs/opinionator/2013/06/12/is-forced-fatherhood-fair/?referer=

Iā€™m not really interested in where youā€™re getting your beliefs from.

Iā€™m interested in you fleshing them out yourself.

Iā€™m pretty sure weā€™ve had this discussion before. I will link them.

If you accept the bodily autonomy argument then your position is extreme. I note your reluctance to engage on discussion on the logical inconsistencies of the bodily automation argument which of course means you canā€™t defend it. Your views seem aligned with the roughly 20% of US states which have no time limits on elective abortion.

Answer the question, should there be any time limits on elective abortion?

As for legal abortion in the UK, 70% of 24 week old fetuses can survive outside the womb, so yes I would say elective abortion at that stage is morally wrong and should be illegal. There are other options at that stage to deliver (induced labor or cesarean), killing a living human organism that can survive outside the womb seems extreme to me.

Nobody, as far as I can see, is arguing against emergency medical procedures to save the life of the mother which result in the death of an embryo or fetus. The issue boils down to what legal rights should a developing fetus have versus the rights of itā€™s mother in a normal pregnancy. I would say that line in the sand is where the fetus has a decent chance of survival outside the womb, which is currently about 22 weeks. Thatā€™s a legal argument, not just a moral argument, as a viable fetus should have legal rights. From a moral standpoint each jurisdiction has to decide on limits, 12 weeks seems acceptable to the majority of Irish people

Iā€™d be quite happy to go with 20 weeks for elective abortion with the same provisions for later term abortion in exceptional circumstances that Britain has, ie. a serious threat to the physical or mental health of the woman.

That would give almost five months for a woman to decide whether she wants to have an abortion or continue with the pregnancy.

As it is in Ireland itā€™d be quite happy to settle for 12 weeks as it represents a massive advancement on the present situation.

Thatā€™s murder

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Will you then pop out to the airport and wave off the women going to the UK for an abortion? A no vote will not defeat or end abortion, mate -

Anyway - expert on the wireless here and he says it will be very hard to abort for downs before 12 weeks - you cant get a definitive diagnosis before then @Locke ā€” With UKā€™s 23 weeks, thatā€™s a different story. Heā€™s pro choice tho.

All the die hard no voters here that are disgusted at the thought of abortion and calling it murder - do i take it you refuse to visit/holiday/travel to countries that have abortion on moral grounds? @anon26343222 do I take it youā€™ve never been to the UK, Holland, USA etc etc?

Just have the fucking vote and be done with it FFS

Newstalk poll yesterday saying 60% in favour, 20/20 undecided /against

Itā€™ll be a massive landslide, waste of time voting at all but weā€™ll go through the charade anyway and let the kids have a day off school

We make lots of things illegal. I find the above line to be another of the daft arguments but forward.

The trend in these things is that they go down as you get closer to the actual vote. Same sex marriage was polling a lot higher than it ended up.

it doesnt matter what time limit they plan to put on it, women will use the mental health option to kill their babies and there is nothing anyone at that stage will be able to do to stop it.
there wont be a Downs Syndrome child born in this country if this is brought in. And thats a fact.

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https://youtu.be/Lleq1oBXeXw
Goths,emos,Lesbians,hipsters,students and @ChocolateMice say hello to the Yes voters guys!

The smell the neglect off them is rotten Iā€™d say. Was it bad @ChocolateMice?