Who is annointing Kerry AI champions? @Bisto going on like the bookies have made them odds on. They won a game at a canter yesterday that a lot of people tipped them to lose, and werent favorites going in. Obviously their overall odds go down, thats only logic. They are a step further along and into a 1/4 final. And they won that game at a canter. People calling it a training session, so therefore it would be safe to assume they have more in the tank to give. I’d absolutely take the point that it was as much Cork being useless as it was Kerry being good, but you only beat whats in front of you, and Kerry did it comfortably.
Cork were awful yesterday. What made it worse, was they kept on doing the same basic things wrong over and over. They were losing all their kick outs in the middle, but yet kept on persisting with the same aimless high kickouts and conceding possession.
[QUOTE=“caoimhaoin, post: 978579, member: 273”]No, it’s not what I’m saying at all. That’s what you want me to be saying.
Of course it’s a fillip for Kerry, but the reality is neither team will win the AI[/QUOTE]
Let me put it another way for you.
You’ve said that Cork have players who are at least capable of challenging Dublin but that they got their tactics wrong. But you seem to be giving Cuthbert an odd sort of pass by suggesting that he took advice from the wrong people and he should have stuck with his own tactics - as if he couldn’t have been responsible for the tactics yesterday.
Cork were obviously awful yesterday but Kerry deserve some credit for putting on that performance. It was certainly as good or better than anything Dublin have done in the Championship so far.
It’s far too early to say that neither can win the AI. While Dublin look awesome, they only need one bad game at the wrong time (which they’re clearly capable of) to be knocked out.
[QUOTE=“Rocko, post: 978602, member: 1”]Let me put it another way for you.
You’ve said that Cork have players who are at least capable of challenging Dublin but that they got their tactics wrong. But you seem to be giving Cuthbert an odd sort of pass by suggesting that he took advice from the wrong people and he should have stuck with his own tactics - as if he couldn’t have been responsible for the tactics yesterday.
Cork were obviously awful yesterday but Kerry deserve some credit for putting on that performance. It was certainly as good or better than anything Dublin have done in the Championship so far.
It’s far too early to say that neither can win the AI. While Dublin look awesome, they only need one bad game at the wrong time (which they’re clearly capable of) to be knocked out.[/QUOTE]
Agree with that, Kerry played a style of football yesterday that would cause Dublin serious problems. In saying that, Dublin would not set up like Cork did but Kerry on form will cause them real problems.
As regards criticism of Cuthbert, well it is hard to defend him as that performance. He continued with a blanket defence which openly invited Kerry onto them, all okay if your defenders are touch tight but they were not.
The most scathing issue for Cork yesterday was the fact that management couldn’t hamper Declan O Sullivan who was basically taped up like a mummy. If a guy in his condition can make hay against your defence then you have serious issues.
You would have to be confidently saying now that it will be a Dublin v Kerry final.
Were Cork favourites yesterday? Why? I expected Kerry to win. Cork aren’t great and Kerry are too intelligent for them. This game was set up perfectly for Kerry. Cue guffaws and why didn’t I tip them ahead but I don’t bother to post in the football thread often.
He also said that Cork would learn from their league semi-final hammering and utter collapse against Dublin while a dead rubber game in which Cork hammered a depleted Kerry would have severe repercussions for Kerry.
[QUOTE=“Rocko, post: 978602, member: 1”]Let me put it another way for you.
1.You’ve said that Cork have players who are at least capable of challenging Dublin but that they got their tactics wrong. But you seem to be giving Cuthbert an odd sort of pass by suggesting that he took advice from the wrong people and he should have stuck with his own tactics - as if he couldn’t have been responsible for the tactics yesterday.
Cork were obviously awful yesterday but Kerry deserve some credit for putting on that performance. It was certainly as good or better than anything Dublin have done in the Championship so far.
It’s far too early to say that neither can win the AI. While Dublin look awesome, they only need one bad game at the wrong time (which they’re clearly capable of) to be knocked out.[/QUOTE]
Let’s just be clear cos you probably missed it. I reviewed my view on Cork challenging Dublin last week or the week before. I believe you should play the best way that suits your players and I think with the players Cork have their league approach, somewhat Dublin like, was the way to go. Now the more I thought about it the more I realised that this year at least, Cork playing that way just didn’t match up well to Dublin and would lose, probably by 7-8 points. I have changed my view somewhat having watched more of the dubs an looking at their stats more closely that a shoot out is never going to work. You have to upset their rhythm and starve them of ball and see what their machine gun forwards are like with only 60/70% possession. I think possibly Donegal are the only team with a ready made system and physicality and scoring forwards to possibly do that. Hence the game as I said earlier has gone to such a “styles” clash and match ups. Cork are 12 months or more away from having either system ready to take on the dubs. Yesterday was a big set back.
I didn’t give Cutbert any pass. In fact I have repeated he made a fucking huge balls of it. I also said I, obviously, was not aware of their thinking but that something recently changed. I’m not sure if it was Cutbert driven or the selectors or even the players. Either way they ALL have to take responsibility when it’s that bad. The other Cork posters were slagging him off and looking for his head. I pointed out he needs a break as he is only in the job 7-8 months and had a lot to learn. To think they can change game plans that easily is plain madness and whole he has a lot of playing experience with him on the line, Ronan Mac is the only guy with real coaching and managerial experience. They are all learning. It’s a young team with buckets of talent, I wouldn’t be throwing out the baby yet.
Did you see the game? That Kerry performance was not as good as Dublins. They showed some structural improvement and Fitzmaurice is clearly a very clever manager, however for the brief periods Cork played they actually looked very shaky. Do you really believe Bryan Sheehan will be able to take standing solos in Croke park before hitting a free running Geaney or JOD? Not a chance. Kerry are very very sluggish around the middle. They are to be admired cos I think they are being brilliantly coached and getting everything out of themselves, but they won’t do in CP against decent opposition.
[QUOTE=“carryharry, post: 978620, member: 1517”]Agree with that, Kerry played a style of football yesterday that would cause Dublin serious problems. In saying that, Dublin would not set up like Cork did but Kerry on form will cause them real problems.
As regards criticism of Cuthbert, well it is hard to defend him as that performance. He continued with a blanket defence which openly invited Kerry onto them, all okay if your defenders are touch tight but they were not.
The most scathing issue for Cork yesterday was the fact that management couldn’t hamper Declan O Sullivan who was basically taped up like a mummy. If a guy in his condition can make hay against your defence then you have serious issues.
You would have to be confidently saying now that it will be a Dublin v Kerry final.[/QUOTE]
What blanket defense? Jesus Christ if only.
Did you watch the game? Cork brought big numbers back behind the ball Kev, but they forgot to mark their men. They waited on their 45 for Kerry to come at them.
[QUOTE=“caoimhaoin, post: 978692, member: 273”]1. Let’s just be clear cos you probably missed it. I reviewed my view on Cork challenging Dublin last week or the week before. I believe you should play the best way that suits your players and I think with the players Cork have their league approach, somewhat Dublin like, was the way to go. Now the more I thought about it the more I realised that this year at least, Cork playing that way just didn’t match up well to Dublin and would lose, probably by 7-8 points. I have changed my view somewhat having watched more of the dubs an looking at their stats more closely that a shoot out is never going to work. You have to upset their rhythm and starve them of ball and see what their machine gun forwards are like with only 60/70% possession. I think possibly Donegal are the only team with a ready made system and physicality and scoring forwards to possibly do that. Hence the game as I said earlier has gone to such a “styles” clash and match ups. Cork are 12 months or more away from having either system ready to take on the dubs. Yesterday was a big set back.
I didn’t give Cutbert any pass. In fact I have repeated he made a fucking huge balls of it. I also said I, obviously, was not aware of their thinking but that something recently changed. I’m not sure if it was Cutbert driven or the selectors or even the players. Either way they ALL have to take responsibility when it’s that bad. The other Cork posters were slagging him off and looking for his head. I pointed out he needs a break as he is only in the job 7-8 months and had a lot to learn. To think they can change game plans that easily is plain madness and whole he has a lot of playing experience with him on the line, Ronan Mac is the only guy with real coaching and managerial experience. They are all learning. It’s a young team with buckets of talent, I wouldn’t be throwing out the baby yet.
Did you see the game? That Kerry performance was not as good as Dublins. They showed some structural improvement and Fitzmaurice is clearly a very clever manager, however for the brief periods Cork played they actually looked very shaky. Do you really believe Bryan Sheehan will be able to take standing solos in Croke park before hitting a free running Geaney or JOD? Not a chance. Kerry are very very sluggish around the middle. They are to be admired cos I think they are being brilliantly coached and getting everything out of themselves, but they won’t do in CP against decent opposition.[/QUOTE]
What are the possession stats for Dublin so far? Are they much higher than 60/70%?
Whether or not you think he was exempt from criticism your biggest issue with him seemed to be that he listened to other people’s ideas and should have stuck with his own ideas. This is just strange speculation. Normally one would assume the manager came up with the tactics used during a match, not that he came up with tactics but somehow got talked out of them and went for something else instead. It’s just a curious line of reasoning.
Yes, I saw it. Dublin weren’t particularly impressive against Laois or Wexford. Kerry mauling Cork from start to finish was more impressive. They were more consistent, imposed themselves from the start and never allowed their opponents to play. Cork were admittedly dreadful but Laois and Wexford weren’t exacttly high calibre teams that caused Dublin problems at times.
Dublin are deservedly favourites for the Championship and should win it but you discounting Kerry after a facile win over their big rivals doesn’t make sense to me.
Dublin had to resort to a lot if cynicism to hold Mayo off. Dublin won pulling up against Kerry who to be honest were a busted flush after half time having out so much into the game.
Mayo asked questions of Dublin late. In the Kerry game they had the benefit if re-grouping at half time and to be fair, once they sorted a few things they dominated most of the 2nd half. In boxing parlance they would the last 6 rounds comfortably to win on points even though a knockout seemed likely for a good while.