All Ireland Senior Football Championship 2014

[QUOTE=“caoimhaoin, post: 978949, member: 273”]Is that all you have. I destroyed your qualifier predictions by getting 100%, and then you get destroyed on your Dublin being tested last year by me and scumpot, and this is the best you can come up with.
To answer your question, not at all rattled. It was hugely disappointing, but being a Cork football person it’s always there nagging in the back of your head that anything could happen against Kerry. As I said here last week, we have to be a few points better than them to beat them as mentally we are scarred. I think we have to adopt a more kerry like approach to football. I think I have some insight into it from going to school with them and our club being full of them and being coached all my life by Kerrymen.
We’re just discussing a game on a Monday like anyone else. When you take out the onemanupship on this site there is a lot of clueless cunts talking a lot of rubbish. Because the few if us who are really involved or have in the recent past been are in a small minority you get some very misinformed one sided discussions.[/QUOTE] Kev, it’s not really a discussion when you tell people their opinions don’t matter. I have played the game & being involved on sidelines but that doesn’t lessen or strengthen my views. You still make IMO no sense when you give Kerry no credit for their performance last year against Dublin, in what was widely regarded as the best game of the year.

You talk very well on certain subjects, but spare us that shite highlighted in your above post.

Standard practice in Cork for Junior teams, okay. Mention that point when mentioning it so ffs.

You are living in la la land. Anywhere in Ulster, Mayo, Dublin and many other spots as well no doubt.
Why should I have to specifically mention anywhere. There is no need to feel inadequate, they are not the be-all and end all, and you can be successful without them. But they do help and these days are easy to record. There are several free apps out there.

[QUOTE=“caoimhaoin, post: 978961, member: 273”]You are living in la la land. Anywhere in Ulster, Mayo, Dublin and many other spots as well no doubt.
Why should I have to specifically mention anywhere. There is no need to feel inadequate, they are not the be-all and end all, and you can be successful without them. But they do help and these days are easy to record. There are several free apps out there.[/QUOTE]
Name a Junior team from Ulster, Mayo & Dublin so you bluffing space cadet. :smiley:

Quickly

[QUOTE=“carryharry, post: 978959, member: 1517”]Kev, it’s not really a discussion when you tell people their opinions don’t matter. I have played the game & being involved on sidelines but that doesn’t lessen or strengthen my views. You still make IMO no sense when you give Kerry no credit for their performance last year against Dublin, in what was widely regarded as the best game of the year.

You talk very well on certain subjects, but spare us that shite highlighted in your above post.[/QUOTE]
I think Kerry made a great game if it, took their opportunities well like any Kerry team does. However Dublins apathy had a lot to do with it.

I think the highlighted point you have is very relevant. And I wouldn’t take it personally. You have your experiences and I have mine. Many here have none though. I was not talking to you especially but you seem to have taken it that way. That’s your doing, not mine.

Peake, mayo. They were taking stats in 1999 when they beat us in All Ireland 7’s final.
Saville (sp?) , Down. Taking them for all 3 adult teams with at least 7-8 years.
I can’t remember the names of clubs of all the lads I meet, but it goes thru all levels.
What’s weird is you accept it happens inCork but nowhere else?!?

@carryharry I the answer to your question is 9.99

Speaking of stats - In 18 minutes in the 1st half Cork had the ball inside Kerry’s 45 once. Once in 18 minutes!

Now thats Junior Club standard stats right there.

[QUOTE=“caoimhaoin, post: 978969, member: 273”]Peake, mayo. They were taking stats in 1999 when they beat us in All Ireland 7’s final.
Saville (sp?) , Down. Taking them for all 3 adult teams with at least 7-8 years.
I can’t remember the names of clubs of all the lads I meet, but it goes thru all levels.
What’s weird is you accept it happens inCork but nowhere else?!?[/QUOTE]
You are from Cork hence I would believe you, the rest is bullshit no doubt. Not all Junior teams have Senior or Intermediate above them, that doesn’t mean they don’t take it seriously as they do. But this comment that you threw out that most Junior teams take stats clearly is way off the mark as you well know.

Of course it’s not bull shit. I have played on and coached a few ex-pat teams. These lads come from everywhere. My experience with people from other counties is in fact far more relevant and recent to that of Cork teams.
We took stats, we discuss what we take. Guys offer opinions, tell us what they did in the past etc. many if these guys come from small clubs.

I can’t force you to believe me. Teams who have an interest is moving up the grades or being successful go the extra mile. I just can’t get why you don’t get that. Well I do, you’re club obviously is not like that.
Some clubs do extraordinary things to be successful. There are Junior and intermediate clubs paying a coach/manager AND a S&C coach out there. And it’s been going in for years.
I think you are quite naive carry in this regard.

I think Cork possibly threw that match. Maybe they want to do it the long way round on the road. In a sense to toughen themselves up in order to come roaring through the back door come September. They probably backed against themselves and made a packet. :slight_smile:

I don’t think so. Last year they didn’t give a fuck. This year they clearly did. You couldn’t fake that bewilderment on their faces.

Cork did give a fuck last year but just were not good enough. for feck sake their reward for not giving a fuck against Kerry last year was an All Ireland QF v Dublin ! very smart policy not giving a fuck

Always in the ball. Good insight into the reality of what’s going on.

[SIZE=6]While Kerry innovate, Cork take stock[/SIZE]
The nagging fear that Kerry are hatching a plan is always there.

Kieran Donaghy’s introduction as the target full-forward won them the All-Ireland in 2006.

In 2009, midfielder Tommy Griffin was re-deployed to full-back where his ability to field the ball and win physical battles allowed him to shut down the emerging power-house full-forwards.

In 2011, Eoin Brosnan was brought out of retirement to drive forward from centre-back rather his traditional wing-forward role. Last year, Colm Cooper’s deployment at centre-forward allowed him to showcase his skills in front of the crowded rearguards rather than disappear behind them.

And on Sunday, Declan O’Sullivan invented the quarterback role in gaelic football. A role tailor-made for an ageing player whose Sat-Nav is superior but whose body is waning. The play was moulded and directed in front of him, by him.

Let’s be clear. You can’t take away from Kerry’s Munster final performance on Sunday. It was a top-class exhibition of all the skills in the game. They were excellent. They were allowed to be. Cork under-performed. Everyone agrees. However, leaving it at that without establishing the reasons why serves no purpose. Kerry have better players? Cork had no heart? Too simplistic. If it was that obvious, we would all have seen this one coming a mile off.

Every performance is a function of the way both teams approach the game. Gaelic football is no different to any sport in that regard but it is not a “set play” ball game. It’s not as prescriptive as Rugby or American Football. The play is too fluid for that to work. There is no offside; the opposition can set up whatever way they like. Just when you think you have cracked it off the back of a great win, the next opposition team has cracked you.

You need to be able to play it a number of ways. The game plan, the over-arching system of play is more like a philosophy tailored to your strengths but which has to be pliable depending on the opposition. Individual decision-making is more relevant. Roles are outlined and the hope is that through practice, these roles start working together seamlessly as the occasion merits. Easier said than done. Therein lays the skill and ability of the truly perceptive managers and coaches.

Cork didn’t go into this one without a game plan. However, it was unfortunate that Kerry went into the match with a game plan very much suited to whatever Cork could throw at them. Brian Cuthbert has tried to develop a strategy around Cork’s strengths in what is a very short space of time. Eamonn Fitzmaurice, it seems, has been developing options.

So what is Cork’s game plan? Cork have built their attack around the fact that they have four key scoring forwards. They play with two in the full-forward line and two in the half-forward line with these four players directed to stay as close to goal as possible. The other two forwards named on the team are mandated to work back the pitch. Along with the rest of the team, the job of those two spare forwards is to transfer the ball up to the four scorers in space as quickly as possible. The four scorers will do a lot of damage if this is left unchecked. But what if you find Donnchadh Walsh, Johnny Buckley and Declan O’Sullivan sweeping in the space in front of those four scorers, daring you to thread a pass? A hand pass sideways buys you time to make a decision but the three sweepers are still there forming a screen. You might punch a hole in the screen with a powerful run through the middle once or twice (cue Aidan Walsh in the first minute) but your four key scorers will still not be much use to you behind that hardworking screen.

Without the protection he was given, Shane Enright could have been in just as much trouble on Brian Hurley as Shields was with James O’Donoghue. Cork’s strengths became neutered and they needed to be able to play it another way. A collective re-organisation was required. If time-outs could be bought, Cork would likely have been highest bidder at several stages during the first half.

If Kerry try the same thing against Dublin, you could well imagine Johnny Cooper following Declan O’Sullivan high up the pitch and perhaps even nicking a point or two himself. Dublin are cavalier and so James McCarthy and Jack McCaffrey would probably also gallop forward with Walsh and Buckley, no matter how deep they go. A shoot-out would ensue. With Donegal, Jim McGuinness would probably leave Declan O’Sullivan and company go as deep into the Kerry defence as they liked. The Donegal defensive screen would hold back and start at midfield with a defiant “break us down if you can attitude” coupled with “we’ll catch you on the counter attack”.

On Sunday, Cork’s half-back line was caught in two minds. They did not push up on the deep-lying Walsh, Buckley and O’Sullivan. They did not sit back to protect the full-back line. The result was exactly what you did not want to happen against Kerry; oceans of space in front of a very talented, nippy, two man Kerry full-forward line and time on the ball for the outside men to pick out a pass. Criticism of Shields and Cadogan was illogical simply because nobody would have coped with that.

They need to be judged on a different day when they are in with a fighting chance. Any efforts made to stem the flow will look unfit, tired and heartless. It’s like chasing shadows. Cork are not unfit. They are not tired and they are not heartless. Kerry simply worked them out in advance and set about dismantling them on the day.

The silver lining is that at least now Cork have an opportunity to avail of the two things they need most. Time and games. A chance to develop and play it a different way with new roles assigned. Whether there will be enough time left this season to address the other malfunctions from Sunday is questionable. The kick out battle, the kick passing, the ball handling are all now on the “to do” list.

Playing it a different way is exactly what Kerry did on Sunday. It’s what they have always been able to do. Whilst the notable change was their half-forward line sweeping in front of their defence and turning over ball, their transitioning of that ball back up the field was also an impressive departure. It required ferocious work rate, intelligent option-taking and a full forward line willing to bridge that 60 metre gap with well-timed diagonal runs. Their philosophy stays the same, the roles change.

Tony McEntee nailed it in yesterday’s Irish Examiner when he said what Fitzmaurice should be given most credit for is merging Kerry’s pass-and-move attacking style with a modern defensive system.

Impressive as it was, it will need to evolve further in Croke Park now that the other contenders have been given an advance screening.

© Irish Examiner Ltd. All rights reserved

Ah they went out to win on the day. However their training was aimed at later on and they rested mildly injured players. They were training pretty heavily up to that week. They clearly put less value in league and Munster last year.
It’s confusing due to all the changing, but I doubt they knew when they’d meet Dublin. And to be honest, after a few qualifiers it’s arguably the best time to play them.

You don’t think so but you really really hope so

[QUOTE=“caoimhaoin, post: 978991, member: 273”]Always in the ball. Good insight into the reality of what’s going on.

[SIZE=6]While Kerry innovate, Cork take stock[/SIZE]
The nagging fear that Kerry are hatching a plan is always there.

Kieran Donaghy’s introduction as the target full-forward won them the All-Ireland in 2006.

In 2009, midfielder Tommy Griffin was re-deployed to full-back where his ability to field the ball and win physical battles allowed him to shut down the emerging power-house full-forwards.

In 2011, Eoin Brosnan was brought out of retirement to drive forward from centre-back rather his traditional wing-forward role. Last year, Colm Cooper’s deployment at centre-forward allowed him to showcase his skills in front of the crowded rearguards rather than disappear behind them.

And on Sunday, Declan O’Sullivan invented the quarterback role in gaelic football. A role tailor-made for an ageing player whose Sat-Nav is superior but whose body is waning. The play was moulded and directed in front of him, by him.

Let’s be clear. You can’t take away from Kerry’s Munster final performance on Sunday. It was a top-class exhibition of all the skills in the game. They were excellent. They were allowed to be. Cork under-performed. Everyone agrees. However, leaving it at that without establishing the reasons why serves no purpose. Kerry have better players? Cork had no heart? Too simplistic. If it was that obvious, we would all have seen this one coming a mile off.

Every performance is a function of the way both teams approach the game. Gaelic football is no different to any sport in that regard but it is not a “set play” ball game. It’s not as prescriptive as Rugby or American Football. The play is too fluid for that to work. There is no offside; the opposition can set up whatever way they like. Just when you think you have cracked it off the back of a great win, the next opposition team has cracked you.

You need to be able to play it a number of ways. The game plan, the over-arching system of play is more like a philosophy tailored to your strengths but which has to be pliable depending on the opposition. Individual decision-making is more relevant. Roles are outlined and the hope is that through practice, these roles start working together seamlessly as the occasion merits. Easier said than done. Therein lays the skill and ability of the truly perceptive managers and coaches.

Cork didn’t go into this one without a game plan. However, it was unfortunate that Kerry went into the match with a game plan very much suited to whatever Cork could throw at them. Brian Cuthbert has tried to develop a strategy around Cork’s strengths in what is a very short space of time. Eamonn Fitzmaurice, it seems, has been developing options.

So what is Cork’s game plan? Cork have built their attack around the fact that they have four key scoring forwards. They play with two in the full-forward line and two in the half-forward line with these four players directed to stay as close to goal as possible. The other two forwards named on the team are mandated to work back the pitch. Along with the rest of the team, the job of those two spare forwards is to transfer the ball up to the four scorers in space as quickly as possible. The four scorers will do a lot of damage if this is left unchecked. But what if you find Donnchadh Walsh, Johnny Buckley and Declan O’Sullivan sweeping in the space in front of those four scorers, daring you to thread a pass? A hand pass sideways buys you time to make a decision but the three sweepers are still there forming a screen. You might punch a hole in the screen with a powerful run through the middle once or twice (cue Aidan Walsh in the first minute) but your four key scorers will still not be much use to you behind that hardworking screen.

Without the protection he was given, Shane Enright could have been in just as much trouble on Brian Hurley as Shields was with James O’Donoghue. Cork’s strengths became neutered and they needed to be able to play it another way. A collective re-organisation was required. If time-outs could be bought, Cork would likely have been highest bidder at several stages during the first half.

If Kerry try the same thing against Dublin, you could well imagine Johnny Cooper following Declan O’Sullivan high up the pitch and perhaps even nicking a point or two himself. Dublin are cavalier and so James McCarthy and Jack McCaffrey would probably also gallop forward with Walsh and Buckley, no matter how deep they go. A shoot-out would ensue. With Donegal, Jim McGuinness would probably leave Declan O’Sullivan and company go as deep into the Kerry defence as they liked. The Donegal defensive screen would hold back and start at midfield with a defiant “break us down if you can attitude” coupled with “we’ll catch you on the counter attack”.

On Sunday, Cork’s half-back line was caught in two minds. They did not push up on the deep-lying Walsh, Buckley and O’Sullivan. They did not sit back to protect the full-back line. The result was exactly what you did not want to happen against Kerry; oceans of space in front of a very talented, nippy, two man Kerry full-forward line and time on the ball for the outside men to pick out a pass. Criticism of Shields and Cadogan was illogical simply because nobody would have coped with that.

They need to be judged on a different day when they are in with a fighting chance. Any efforts made to stem the flow will look unfit, tired and heartless. It’s like chasing shadows. Cork are not unfit. They are not tired and they are not heartless. Kerry simply worked them out in advance and set about dismantling them on the day.

The silver lining is that at least now Cork have an opportunity to avail of the two things they need most. Time and games. A chance to develop and play it a different way with new roles assigned. Whether there will be enough time left this season to address the other malfunctions from Sunday is questionable. The kick out battle, the kick passing, the ball handling are all now on the “to do” list.

Playing it a different way is exactly what Kerry did on Sunday. It’s what they have always been able to do. Whilst the notable change was their half-forward line sweeping in front of their defence and turning over ball, their transitioning of that ball back up the field was also an impressive departure. It required ferocious work rate, intelligent option-taking and a full forward line willing to bridge that 60 metre gap with well-timed diagonal runs. Their philosophy stays the same, the roles change.

Tony McEntee nailed it in yesterday’s Irish Examiner when he said what Fitzmaurice should be given most credit for is merging Kerry’s pass-and-move attacking style with a modern defensive system.

Impressive as it was, it will need to evolve further in Croke Park now that the other contenders have been given an advance screening.

© Irish Examiner Ltd. All rights reserved[/QUOTE]

who wrote it?

Conor McCarthy. Thought it was harmless enough myself, nothing of note in there beyond what was obvious about Sunday. A balm for Cork wounds perhaps.

Conor McCarthy.