[QUOTE=“farmerinthecity, post: 960060, member: 24”]This argument has been on the go since Dublin announced their team last week.
That must be some sort of record.[/QUOTE]
whats worse is either side still can’t even attempt to see the others’ point of view…:D:D
Socks Dunne’s injury - seems like one of the Armagh players hit his hand with their face while they were lying on the ground and caused a double fracture.
[QUOTE=“caoimhaoin, post: 958432, member: 273”]Ridiculous comparision. One cos it’s professional sport, two a lot more teams are capable of winning CL than AI.
Everything else is bollix. I know better than most about the differences having work at amatuer, semi-pro & pro sport.
You have already given me the answer I would give you. There is no need to celebrate any competition for 5/6 months (although I don’t believe that an think you were exaggerating for effect). And of course sports science can help, both mentally and physically.
But I can’t expect you to understand that. Just like an accountant wouldn’t expect me to understand Tax laws and likes, I can’t expect you to understand sports science or sports psychology[/QUOTE]
I’d belatedly like to take you up on this point. The fact that the Champions League is professional sport reinforces the argument that hunger is a key factor in GAA, rather than discrediting it. I think we’d all agree that the optimum conditions for high performance in sport involve a lifestyle where you can dedicate your life to it professionally, with clear and uninterrupted time for recovery, with minimum interference from other things, eg work. Professional footballers have this environment. GAA players do not, and as long as the game remains amateur, never will.
That no team has retained the Champions League since 1990, to me proves that even when a team has all optimum conditions to retain the trophy in terms of training, preparation methods and lifestyle, there is a medium to long term negative mental effect of a long, successful campaign, even amongst professional sportspeople, which we can only call “lack of hunger”. It’s a human reaction. Despite sports science’s best efforts, it has so far not found a foolproof way to combat this human reaction, and combatting lack of hunger is more difficult again in a team environment, as opposed to individual sport, because you have to carry a whole panel with you, and lack of hunger in some players can seep into the rest of the team. Again, that’s a human reaction.
That effect is multiplied when you’re talking about successful All-Ireland winning teams, because their members have to go to work or college. Inter-county preparations already have to strike a very delicate balance in terms of time management. And as I’ve said, All-Ireland celebrations will likely seriously interfere with a team’s base work during the winter. Team holidays, functions, touring schools with the trophy etc, plus other stuff. Because Donegal is a county that has been traditionally starved of success, players will likely have celebrated longer than most. Their panel was already very shallow by the standards of All-Ireland winners, even in 2012…
Even if, say, 10 of the team have the same hunger the next year and let the celebrations interfere only minimally on their lifestyle during the winter, it’s likely there will always be a rump that aren’t at the same level. Maybe most of the team will find their performance levels dropping 5% or so, a drop that is barely perceptible and only really becomes apparent when it matters in a key match - for Donegal that match was against Down last year, and though they still did enough to win that day, it became magnified against Monaghan.
Hunger is key, and that it’s a cliche does not dilute its truth. Jim McGuinness is not a miracle worker and he, like every other All-Ireland-winning foorball manager of the last 23 years, could not instill the same hunger into his team the next year. That was entirely foreseeable.
Back in March, I made a point that you agreed with, when I referred to Ciaran Kilkenny’s injury, and injuries in general. I noted that Kilkenny had been playing relatively poorly since around the middle of last summer, and this was possibly down to the constant grind of playing for different teams, training, college work, even the time taken to get to training and college, and that all that combined may have had a fatiguing physical/mental impact on his performance, possibly making him more vulnerable to injury. I’d suggest that at least some Donegal players were likely suffering from a similar effect. McGuinness and managers of most All-Ireland winning teams tend to be snookered either way - either get teams to put in the work during the winter and spring months when they may be physically and mentally drained, or risk going into the championship undercooked. Either way, the result is likely to be the same - the team isn’t the same force of the previous year. Compare the background to Donegal’s preparations in 2013 to those of Dublin and Mayo, who were already refreshed and flying by the time the league came around. Donegal were playing catch up from the word go.
I would also say that the argument that more teams can genuinely hope to win the Champions League than the All-Ireland is moot enough, given the clear inequalities in finances between the top teams and the rest. Certainly the richest clubs in Europe can expect to coast through to the last 16, where winning four ties means winning the tournament. Since 2000 nine clubs have won the Champions League, seven have won the All-Ireland. The difference is certainly minimal enough if it exists.
Cpoy and pasted from before:
What exactly do you have a problem with in what I’ve posted over the last couple of weeks, as you’ve squarely failed to point anything out so far except to resort to bland generalisations - followed by your having to resort to non sequiturs.
[QUOTE=“Il Bomber Destro, post: 960101, member: 2533”]Socks Dunne’s injury - seems like one of the Armagh players hit his hand with their face while they were lying on the ground and caused a double fracture.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YRDpEqXDM2g
[/QUOTE]
Looks like it was Jamie Clarke who broke Dunne’s hand with his face. Six week ban for Jamie and an eight week ban for McKeever for bad manners.
[QUOTE=“The Scouse Cafu, post: 960105, member: 2660”]Cpoy and pasted from before:
What exactly do you have a problem with in what I’ve posted over the last couple of weeks, as you’ve squarely failed to point anything out so far except to resort to bland generalisations - followed by your having to resort to non sequiturs.[/QUOTE]
what the fuck are you on about you freak???..If I thought you were talking garbage I pulled you up…if you thought I was talking garbage you pull me up…whats the big deal?? …fuckin hell , get a life !
Just asking, mate because you just talked in very bland general terms rather than debating anything specific, which doesn’t make for good debate.
do you think this place is made for good debate ??..its a pisstake…there’s serious nonsense talked about football here…
do you think this place is made for good debate ??..its a pisstake…there’s serious nonsense talked about football here…[/QUOTE]
I’d like to think some of us at least attempt to debate in amongst all the nonsense, mate.
it only goes to a certain level and then always goes back to an argument between the person who watches the game through their own eyes and the person who judges the game totally by the statistics they read in the paper … with neither having blind regard for the other’s opinion…you add in the different experience people have in playing that sport and the whole thing is a cluster fuck where a person ends up getting pulled up for their use of the English language - i.e. could, would instead of the actual point they were making…
[QUOTE=“The Scouse Cafu, post: 960102, member: 2660”]I’d belatedly like to take you up on this point. The fact that the Champions League is professional sport reinforces the argument that hunger is a key factor in GAA, rather than discrediting it. I think we’d all agree that the optimum conditions for high performance in sport involve a lifestyle where you can dedicate your life to it professionally, with clear and uninterrupted time for recovery, with minimum interference from other things, eg work. Professional footballers have this environment. GAA players do not, and as long as the game remains amateur, never will.
That no team has retained the Champions League since 1990, to me proves that even when a team has all optimum conditions to retain the trophy in terms of training, preparation methods and lifestyle, there is a medium to long term negative mental effect of a long, successful campaign, even amongst professional sportspeople, which we can only call “lack of hunger”. It’s a human reaction. Despite sports science’s best efforts, it has so far not found a foolproof way to combat this human reaction, and combatting lack of hunger is more difficult again in a team environment, as opposed to individual sport, because you have to carry a whole panel with you, and lack of hunger in some players can seep into the rest of the team. Again, that’s a human reaction.
That effect is multiplied when you’re talking about successful All-Ireland winning teams, because their members have to go to work or college. Inter-county preparations already have to strike a very delicate balance in terms of time management. And as I’ve said, All-Ireland celebrations will likely seriously interfere with a team’s base work during the winter. Team holidays, functions, touring schools with the trophy etc, plus other stuff. Because Donegal is a county that has been traditionally starved of success, players will likely have celebrated longer than most. Their panel was already very shallow by the standards of All-Ireland winners, even in 2012…
Even if, say, 10 of the team have the same hunger the next year and let the celebrations interfere only minimally on their lifestyle during the winter, it’s likely there will always be a rump that aren’t at the same level. Maybe most of the team will find their performance levels dropping 5% or so, a drop that is barely perceptible and only really becomes apparent when it matters in a key match - for Donegal that match was against Down last year, and though they still did enough to win that day, it became magnified against Monaghan.
Hunger is key, and that it’s a cliche does not dilute its truth. Jim McGuinness is not a miracle worker and he, like every other All-Ireland-winning foorball manager of the last 23 years, could not instill the same hunger into his team the next year. That was entirely foreseeable.
Back in March, I made a point that you agreed with, when I referred to Ciaran Kilkenny’s injury, and injuries in general. I noted that Kilkenny had been playing relatively poorly since around the middle of last summer, and this was possibly down to the constant grind of playing for different teams, training, college work, even the time taken to get to training and college, and that all that combined may have had a fatiguing physical/mental impact on his performance, possibly making him more vulnerable to injury. I’d suggest that at least some Donegal players were likely suffering from a similar effect. McGuinness and managers of most All-Ireland winning teams tend to be snookered either way - either get teams to put in the work during the winter and spring months when they may be physically and mentally drained, or risk going into the championship undercooked. Either way, the result is likely to be the same - the team isn’t the same force of the previous year. Compare the background to Donegal’s preparations in 2013 to those of Dublin and Mayo, who were already refreshed and flying by the time the league came around. Donegal were playing catch up from the word go.
I would also say that the argument that more teams can genuinely hope to win the Champions League than the All-Ireland is moot enough, given the clear inequalities in finances between the top teams and the rest. Certainly the richest clubs in Europe can expect to coast through to the last 16, where winning four ties means winning the tournament. Since 2000 nine clubs have won the Champions League, seven have won the All-Ireland. The difference is certainly minimal enough if it exists.[/QUOTE]
It’s a debate that could be argued either way. However that’s still some load of crap and because I’ve clearly shown you fools up you go back and answer something else from a few days ago. What a sad cunt you are.
Two word for you though, emotional attachment. Figure it out.
[QUOTE=“caoimhaoin, post: 959979, member: 273”]No doubt. Where did I say anything contray that?
All teams plan for their subs to have an impact these days. And the way Dublin team tire and they can then come on and pretty easily punish tired teams.
I never argued that. Rocko got up on his high horse cos I pulled him on his over the top description of the subs. It’s tht simple. It has led to him to question every single thing I have said on football in 3 years, which I think reflects more on him than me.[/QUOTE]
You said Dublin’s subs weren’t an incrredible set of forwards. Show me another team in Ireland where the forward subs have had the same impact or scores. Ipso facto Dublin’s bench is the best or most incredible forward subs in Ireland.
You don’t. You make some good points but you talk a lot of rubbish about the surrounds of the games an not the important stuff. You constantly refer to old games to try and show off your “knowledge”. The fact is you bore the shit out of me at least.
Sorry I have to step in here.
Have you not more or less admitted that you haven’t played or managed at any sort of high level?
[QUOTE=“farmerinthecity, post: 960127, member: 24”]Sorry I have to step in here.
Have you not more or less admitted that you haven’t played or managed at any sort of high level?[/QUOTE]
bizarre you feel the need to apologise … anyway …haven’t managed… why ?
I think you think this means “we injured those players last year.” In a sort of humane way. Like the way a farmer might talk about stray dogs - “we had them put down.”
To be patronising out of necessity: that is not what the above sentence means. It means there were players injured last year and therefore they can’t train as hard this year. It doesn’t mean that their injuries were caused by last year’s training.
[QUOTE=“caoimhaoin, post: 960005, member: 273”]
You are the one incapable of reading fella. He clearly says last couple of years. They have completely reversed their training.
The fact that he says this
“We took a different approach this year,” shows a clear move away from last couple of years.
This one is key
""We are looking at a more long-term approach now. The key reason behind that was the number of players we had injured last year and trying to bring them with us this year. We figured that if we worked very hard early in the season that we would put them under pressure. "
No decent coach/conditioner/psychologist should take anything but a long term view in terms of Conditioning, development and training. Hence my view of it being less scientific than I thought. It’s called LTPD, I studied it, Jimmy would have, it’s part of UEFA coaching badges, IRFU etc, etc. it’s LONG TERM PLAYER DEVELOPMENT.
I have a feeling Jimmy has picked up a few things at Celtic and adjusting accordingly. I applaud him for that, every day is a school day.
It’s mind boggling how you can’t see it. But you are talking about something you clearly haven’t a notion about.[/quote]
To repeat once again: nobody is arguing that Donegal didn’t change anything. What has long term player development got to do with anything? McGuinness has said they adjusted their training to cater for players coming back from injury. That doesn’t mean they have just discovered long term player development, it doesn’t mean that they didn’t have a long term view before now, it doesn’t mean that they injured players in the past through over or under-training or lack of infrared training. It just means they adjusted training this year.
It’s mind boggling how poor your comprehension skills are.
So you’ve played?
To think I took you seriously.
depends what would you consider high?..
So I make some good points, but I don’t attempt to debate? That is some contradiction.
I refer to old games because knowledge of them does help when debating. And if there’s one man that tries to show off “knowledge” here, Kev, it’s you.
It’s good to know that even though I bore the shit out of you, you keep responding with abuse. I’m happy with that.