[QUOTE=“caoimhaoin, post: 973604, member: 273”]Ah ya, there will be 1-2 great options no matter what. It’s just being way over played and I think yesterday showed it. I think the following is the right mix presuming all fit
Connolly A. Brogan Flynn
Mannion Andrews B. Brogan
The real class in the subs is Costello and McCaffery (who I think should be accommodated now anyway starting). McManaman is obviously a great impact player too. That’s 3 excellent subs. Nobody else had the ability to change a game that might be in the balance and I think that’s the key. Forget coming on kicking scores against Wexford, while not irrelevant, it’s not a great indicator of white hot AI 1/4, semi or final action. And that’s what matters.[/QUOTE] #bluster
[QUOTE=“carryharry, post: 973599, member: 1517”]Yes, they should have a good chance at home to Laois.
Wicklow at home to Sligo ( did you see how shite they were against Galway? :rolleyes: ) is a reasonable call.[/QUOTE]
Sligo have a couple if very decent players, they have gone back, but Wocklow are bollixed Har. They lost a couple and there are a few lads on the training panel now that I played with and seriously, they are barely good senior club players. If the odds are good someone might make a buck off Sligo
Laois are a superior team to Wexford. Now their last performance didn’t seem very inspiring but I’m going to put that down to a Dublin hangover. They seemed to have targeted Dublin and obviously gave it everything.
I’m saying in te 1/4’s. That’s arguably the most dangerous round for them. They will have much better preperation for semi an final should they get there. They could get a qualifier, and any of a number of decent sides could go there. Galway beating Mayo is not that unbelievable anymore, I’m not sure Dublin cold would fancy a wound up Mayo.
[QUOTE=“caoimhaoin, post: 973604, member: 273”]Ah ya, there will be 1-2 great options no matter what. It’s just being way over played and I think yesterday showed it. I think the following is the right mix presuming all fit
Connolly A. Brogan Flynn
Mannion Andrews B. Brogan
The real class in the subs is Costello and McCaffery (who I think should be accommodated now anyway starting). McManaman is obviously a great impact player too. That’s 3 excellent subs. Nobody else had the ability to change a game that might be in the balance and I think that’s the key. Forget coming on kicking scores against Wexford, while not irrelevant, it’s not a great indicator of white hot AI 1/4, semi or final action. And that’s what matters.[/QUOTE]
O’Gara will be an important factor from the bench in close games too.
McCaffrey seems to be a designated sub this year. First sub the first game, then even with changes in the half back line he’s no more than first sub in the next game. I don’t think the half back line is strong enough to just keep him as an impact sub.
[QUOTE=“Rocko, post: 973617, member: 1”]O’Gara will be an important factor from the bench in close games too.
McCaffrey seems to be a designated sub this year. First sub the first game, then even with changes in the half back line he’s no more than first sub in the next game. I don’t think the half back line is strong enough to just keep him as an impact sub.[/QUOTE]
I think a few of the better teams have figured out O Gara.
Of course they can. If Cork lose the Munster final they are in the qualifiers in an open draw, end of story. Same as Mayo. The winners are kept apart, nobody else.
[QUOTE=“Rocko, post: 973617, member: 1”]O’Gara will be an important factor from the bench in close games too.
McCaffrey seems to be a designated sub this year. First sub the first game, then even with changes in the half back line he’s no more than first sub in the next game. I don’t think the half back line is strong enough to just keep him as an impact sub.[/QUOTE]
its pretty clear that Dublin have a specific 19 or 20 man tactic and they are aiming to start a game solidly but basing it that they have the resources to surge ahead for the last 20 minutes and blow away teams. The Cork league game was a clear example of that, they are content to be there abouts at half time or even behind, as they are confident enough that they have enough with their starters to bring on arguably better players who have some pace to take the game on late on. Laois tried counteract this the last day when McCaffrey came on, but didnt work for them.
Its not that an unusual a tactic, as you would often see teams leave a good ‘impact’ player on the bench, but where Dublin differ is they are doing this with 3 players or more. If the players being used for this buy into it, then it will work, as it seems to be.
Would agree with @caoimhaoin too in that Dublin need Meath to put it up to them. But not just put it up to them at Meaths pace, but Dublin need to be at full pelt getting a tough game. Their stroll against Laois and absolute walk in the park against Wexford werent worth a shit to them. You learn nothing from those games as to what to work on as they were barely even doing enough to win, yet won both games extremely easily.
[QUOTE=“Gman, post: 973643, member: 112”]its pretty clear that Dublin have a specific 19 or 20 man tactic and they are aiming to start a game solidly but basing it that they have the resources to surge ahead for the last 20 minutes and blow away teams. The Cork league game was a clear example of that, they are content to be there abouts at half time or even behind, as they are confident enough that they have enough with their starters to bring on arguably better players who have some pace to take the game on late on. Laois tried counteract this the last day when McCaffrey came on, but didnt work for them.
Its not that an unusual a tactic, as you would often see teams leave a good ‘impact’ player on the bench, but where Dublin differ is they are doing this with 3 players or more. If the players being used for this buy into it, then it will work, as it seems to be.
Would agree with @caoimhaoin too in that Dublin need Meath to put it up to them. But not just put it up to them at Meaths pace, but Dublin need to be at full pelt getting a tough game. Their stroll against Laois and absolute walk in the park against Wexford werent worth a shit to them. You learn nothing from those games as to what to work on as they were barely even doing enough to win, yet won both games extremely easily.[/QUOTE]
They are also playing machine gun football. Just shooting a ridiculous amount of shots and relying on an average enough return (in relation to the shots). If someone, big ask, slows down or reduce the amount of ball going in the shoot on sight type play would be severely restricted. Being asked in the middle of a game to be that little bit extra precise is not something you can just do and it’s very hard to prepare and practice for both from a coaching point of view. It’s counterintuitive.
I think that’s the only way to beat them the more I think about it. So maybe a Cork or Mayo are not as suited. If Corks forwards catch fire they could win a shoot out, but again I feel they’ll only get 70-80% of the possession Dublin would “inside 45”. Mayo might match Dublin in that department but certainly are nowhere near as prolific.
Donegal may, big maybe, frustrate them enough and have a great day up front.
It’s a lot of ifs and maybe’s, but it would be shit if they steamroll everyone, however I don’t think it will happen that way.
Dublin are thriving in an era where most Gaa teams are set up to be slow in their build up play. Wexford took an age to work the ball forward yesterday & Dublin just sat with numbers behind the ball ready to counter attack in wide open spaces at pace.
When Laois troubled Dublin it was with faster direct ball into the their forwards, plus the ball carriers were breaking the tackles thus eliminating Dublin’s extra lines of defence. The problem with that ploy is that is demands huge fitness levels & an extremely talented bench. Laois to be fair had neither.
Kerry troubled Dublin last year because they were quick to give the ball in, but in the end their bench left them down.
[QUOTE=“carryharry, post: 973730, member: 1517”]Dublin are thriving in an era where most Gaa teams are set up to be slow in their build up play. Wexford took an age to work the ball forward yesterday & Dublin just sat with numbers behind the ball ready to counter attack in wide open spaces at pace.
When Laois troubled Dublin it was with faster direct ball into the their forwards, plus the ball carriers were breaking the tackles thus eliminating Dublin’s extra lines of defence. The problem with that ploy is that is demands huge fitness levels & an extremely talented bench. Laois to be fair had neither.
Kerry troubled Dublin last year because they were quick to give the ball in, but in the end their bench left them down.[/QUOTE]
Nothing wrong with Laois’ fitness levels, McNulty and Solan had made sure of that. Purely bench and a lack of natural talent in key areas, ie the full back line where we had an entire halfback line playing there, you’ll go nowhere like that against Dublin in Croke Park.
My understanding (which may be completely wrong) is that the teams in the A and B sections of the qualifiers stay separated up to and including Round 4, where they meet the losing provincial finalists. The losing provincial finalists can meet either an A or a B section team in that round.
The winners of the Round 4 ties involving the A section teams meet either the Munster or Connacht champions in the quarter-finals. The winners of the Round 4 ties involving B section teams meet either the Leinster or Ulster champions.
The route of the teams currently in the back door is effectively predetermined - A section teams such as Tipperary and Limerick can only meet either the Munster or Connacht champions in the quarter-finals if they progress that far, while B section teams such as Tyrone, Down and Kildare can only met the Leinster or Ulster champions.
However the losing provincial finalists don’t know whether they will meet an A or B section team and can be drawn in either half of the draw.
So if Mayo lose the Connacht final they could draw a B section team such as Tyrone in Round 4, beat them and draw Dublin in the quarter-finals.
[QUOTE=“caoimhaoin, post: 973723, member: 273”]They are also playing machine gun football. Just shooting a ridiculous amount of shots and relying on an average enough return (in relation to the shots). If someone, big ask, slows down or reduce the amount of ball going in the shoot on sight type play would be severely restricted. Being asked in the middle of a game to be that little bit extra precise is not something you can just do and it’s very hard to prepare and practice for both from a coaching point of view. It’s counterintuitive.
I think that’s the only way to beat them the more I think about it. So maybe a Cork or Mayo are not as suited. If Corks forwards catch fire they could win a shoot out, but again I feel they’ll only get 70-80% of the possession Dublin would “inside 45”. Mayo might match Dublin in that department but certainly are nowhere near as prolific.
Donegal may, big maybe, frustrate them enough and have a great day up front.
It’s a lot of ifs and maybe’s, but it would be shit if they steamroll everyone, however I don’t think it will happen that way.[/QUOTE]
Yeah I dont think teams will match Dublin in a shoot out. I think they have too much quality up front, and in particular off the bench when they step the pace up a notch. I think their fitness works well with this, and its an impressive and somewhat risky tactic, but it is proving to work well so far.
My own thoughts on it are to counteract their play, and hit them hard and early on the scoreboard often. Get up a bit steam against them and get a lead on them. Set your pace early on, and take the game to them. And if needs be, then defend deep and stifle them in the second half, even counteracting their subs with more defensive minded subs in your side.
Whether or not that would work is another thing, but I think trying to match them man for man and take them on for 70 minutes in a score fest wont work.
I think Donegal at their best could take them. their tactics against Mayo in the final was somewhat like that, go hard and hit them early for scores, and then be defensive minded enough to stop counterattacks.
I think Donegal at their best could take them. their tactics against Mayo in the final was somewhat like that, go hard and hit them early for scores, and then be defensive minded enough to stop counterattacks.[/QUOTE]
I don’t think that Donegal team will get around croker like they did before… more miles on the clock etc…the gameplan demands so much effort and intensity from such a small panel…but I do think Dublin will struggle against a few teams from here on in…they are cruising and winning and making plenty of mistakes along the way… there is a malaise in that team with regards finishing for nearly 12 months at this stage…they are going to leave a team with enough good forwards in the game til the death and eventually get caught by a late goal…like I said at start of champo if Mayo actually sit down and try to learn from previous defeats and tinker a bit they are well capable of beating dubs but as long as O shea keeps carrying the ball into tackles instea dof releasing quick ball they are going to come up short. …Its that fine a margin…
The only real weakness I see with Dublin at the moment is the space they leave behind their half back line. Currently their half backs tend to push on past their 45, so if teams can turn the ball over ( not easy ) then it is imperative that they have a full forward line that can win quick ball & put scores on the board. Kerry did this last year.
Looking at what’s left in the Championship it’s hard to see another team capable bar Mayo on their day*.
If it’s an AI final then we know what will happen.
yeah would agree. Donegal havent been at their best since that game with Mayo, so whether or not they can get back to that level is probably not going to happen in this campaign. Just meant the way they were able to play then at their best would be the template, IMO, to take it onto Dublin. I’m not sure any of the other sides can do that. Be interested to see what Monaghan would do, one of the few teams not to have a crack off the Dubs. Agree with your point on Mayo too, can be too slow an ponderous on the ball, and that will only play into Dublins hands. If they can change that, they could do it, but they’ve not really shown much signs of altering their gameplan or way of playing. Still far too naive in how they play. Cork I think are coming too soon in their development to challenge this year, come next year I think they will be more of a force. Any other side that may put it up to Dublin would only be if Dublin played like they did yesterday in the first half for the full 70 minutes and really catch them off their guard.
[QUOTE=“carryharry, post: 973762, member: 1517”]The only real weakness I see with Dublin at the moment is the space they leave behind their half back line. Currently their half backs tend to push on past their 45, so if teams can turn the ball over ( not easy ) then it is imperative that they have a full forward line that can win quick ball & put scores on the board. Kerry did this last year.
Looking at what’s left in the Championship it’s hard to see another team capable bar Mayo on their day*.
If it’s an AI final then we know what will happen.[/QUOTE]
i think a team who kicks long diagonal ball will clean Dublin’s full back line because all 3 play from the from the front, they are all usually totally isolated with their marker and O carroll is the only one with any real strength in the air and he usually always tries to break the ball anyhow …and like you said the gap between half back line and full back line is massive… the old armagh team used to have that ball mastered… Mcdonnell got in for some amount of scores from such a basic tactic…
I’m pretty confident you are wrong. I believe the quarters and semis are predetermined as well.
The A sides join in with the Munster and Connacht winners and the B sides join in with the Leinster and Ulster winners. You can offer me a full apology if you’re proven incorrect.
[QUOTE=“Gman, post: 973751, member: 112”]Yeah I dont think teams will match Dublin in a shoot out. I think they have too much quality up front, and in particular off the bench when they step the pace up a notch. I think their fitness works well with this, and its an impressive and somewhat risky tactic, but it is proving to work well so far.
My own thoughts on it are to counteract their play, and hit them hard and early on the scoreboard often. Get up a bit steam against them and get a lead on them. Set your pace early on, and take the game to them. And if needs be, then defend deep and stifle them in the second half, even counteracting their subs with more defensive minded subs in your side.
Whether or not that would work is another thing, but I think trying to match them man for man and take them on for 70 minutes in a score fest wont work.
I think Donegal at their best could take them. their tactics against Mayo in the final was somewhat like that, go hard and hit them early for scores, and then be defensive minded enough to stop counterattacks.[/QUOTE]
Impressive detail to your plan their Gman. You’d make a good mentor some day.