Coronavirus - Here come the variants

[the_man_himself]

@The_Most_Infamous

I’ll go back to my final point on my last post - if you and yours are vaccinated with a vaccine that claims to significantly reduce symptoms, what do you care what I or anyone else does?

Because if enough people refuse the vaccine lockdowns will still happen

[backinatracksuit]

I wonder how many lives have been saved by the MMR vaccine, how many serious disabilities avoided etc etc,

There’s going to be limited side effects from anything and peoples lives will be affected, I don’t mean that to sound cold but you need to put it into context,

[The_Most_Infamous]

I don’t believe we should be locked down at all. Regardless of vaccines.

Reason initally for lockdown was “overwhelming the health system”

Ffs, its been overwhelmed for the last 30 years. People who die from Covid have been on their watch as well overwhelmly in nursing homes and hospitals going back to last March.

[the_man_himself]

Then you should do your bit for reopening by taking the vaccine

[myboyblue]

You lured him in the grandest there.

[tallback]

@Enrique

How can you not see that it makes sense to be concerned about taking a vaccine that’s been rushed through in 12 months to combat a virus that is proven to have a negligible impact on his age group? He’s not the crazy one here.

Be careful mate - Bill Gates is gonna get you …

[tallback]

@Heyyoubehindthebushes

Long covid is the biggest pile of shit I’ve ever heard. As bad as a 3 day hangover.

Yeah maybe. All seems vague. But as I said it’s about relative risk

[The_Most_Infamous]

@the_man_himself

Then you should do your bit for reopening by taking the vaccine

Does the social distancing, mask wearing and washing hands not achieve that though mate?

[The_Most_Infamous]

Long covid is pie in the sky stuff mate.

Your thinking will result in rolling lockdowns for every variant of this respitory virus that we are going to have going forward.

Think about that scenario - you’re throwing everything you have into big pharma corporations hands, instead of telling people exercise, lose weight, take vitamins etc

I think its madness anyway.

[tallback]

@The_Most_Infamous

@tallback

@The_Most_Infamous

@tallback

@The_Most_Infamous

@tallback

@The_Most_Infamous

@tallback

@The_Most_Infamous

@Tierneevin1979

Where are you getting the notion that the vaccines don’t provide immunity? That’s the whole point of a vaccine and all of them are demonstrating high levels of immunity as in greatly reducing moderate to severe illness. The J&J clinical trial had 435 people with symptomatic Covid, not one of the group that got the vaccine was hospitalized or died. Half of the 40k in the trial had comorbidities, so were candidates for serious illness.

Its too early to tell for definite mate. High levels of immunity isnt immunity. I think boosters will be needed before next winter and then there’s always going to be new variants.

You can’t tell me anything about long term side effects of these vaccines - they’re not around long enough, fingers crossed they’re fine, but we’ve seen in the recent past problems with the Swine Flu jabs that arent apparent initially.

Why do apply a completely different standard of risk analysis to vaccines as opposed to Covid itself? It’s bizarre.

You’re surely a hide under the bed merchant deep down considering your levels of worry.

I’ve no fear whatsoever about getting covid mate - 12 month in now. I don’t fear it at all as a reasonably healthy 35 year old. I’d be surprised if it affected my health in any way bar maybe a sore throat or something if I where to get it.

I’m reluctant to take the vaccines as I’ve no fear about getting Covid the same way that I’ve no fear of the flu and never got that jab in the past.

I wouldnt criticise anyone for taking the vaccines. Each to their own. It should be a personal decision that is accepted and not derided.

But based on any available and credible facts, that is not a rational assessment of risk.

Flesh out those facts for me mate?

I reckon my risk of dying with Covid at 35 years of age with no underlying illnesses is pretty much zero. Same as the seasonal flu in fact.

Do you have anything to hand to suggest otherwise?

No I agree your risk is relatively low but not immaterial. Off the top of my head 5-10% of cases in that age group end up in hospital with a much lower % dying. Long Covid is a risk but I don’t have a sense of % for that. Prob the bigger risk is you get it and transmit it to someone with a higher risk profile but I haven’t got the sense that transmission is a high concern for you.

However, there is no data to suggest a comparable level of risk from taking a vaccine - the data would suggest much much lower if at all, yet you seem far more concerned about this risk - which relatively speaking is in the hapenny place to the virus.

That’s the irrational bit - your comparison of relative risk

Ok, 5-10% of people end up in hospital at my age - have you got a source for that mate?

Have you also got a source for long covid symptoms? I reckon there is very little research done on that to date,

I’ve seen nothing to suggest either of the above are a worry for my health personally. In relation to my views on transmission - you’re totally wrong, I’ve played by the so called rules all along,

Lets not forget - no one in my family has had Covid, if you want to use that stick, can you say the same mate?

Ultimately, no one including your good self can tell me or anyone else about long term side effects of these vaccines- thats where my reservation regarding them comes from,

Hopefully they’ll be absolutely fine - that would be ideal, but the noise coming from Israel as an example suggests a 3rd and 4th booster shot will be needed etc etc…

Where does it end? And if I don’t take a vaccine - surely yours protects you? And if doesnt, whats the point of it?

What’s the long term side effects of Covid on your age group?

It’s clearly a concern for you re vaccines (despite absolutely no data) so why is it not a concern for you re the actual virus?

Your point about boosters is immaterial. If that’s what it takes and they’re safe what’s the issue?

Finally a vaccine can be highly effective without being 100% effective. That doesn’t mean it’s unsafe or not worth taking. As such, maximum societal benefit is achieved through the Max no of people taking it. Your view is quite selfish imho.

To be honest, that’s all fine. Be irrational. Use emotions in your arguments instead of facts. Be selfish. But if you do all that sign off from moaning about lockdowns etc as you make no sense

Long term side effects for people under 75 not just my age demographic are negligable mate,

For me, these vaccines are not around long enough or have been fully trialled to give you an answer on that,

I’ll go back to my final point on my last post - if you and yours are vaccinated with a vaccine that claims to significantly reduce symptoms, what do you care what I or anyone else does?

What doesnt the vaccine provide immunity in the first place? Thats even more reason to be sceptical around it.

That’s grand. Wait for long term studies on the vaccine. But don’t piss and moan about lockdown and other restrictions while you’re waiting for that data.

I’ve answered the question on why societal protection from vaccines is dependent upon a high uptake. Ignore that if you will but that’s the facts of the situation.

[the_man_himself]

@The_Most_Infamous

Does the social distancing, mask wearing and washing hands not achieve that though mate?

Clearly not.

I’m not a scientist but nobody ever said that masks would get rid of Covid. They are a measure to limit the spread, not eliminate it.

I’m fairly against lockdown myself but have no time whatsoever for this anti-vaxx stuff that is creeping in here.

[tallback]

@Tierneevin1979

No real desire to get into the middle of this argument, but your numbers are way off.

For a person in the 30s, the risk of hospitalization if infected with Covid is about 1.5% and the risk of death about 0.1%. That’s for all races and health status, so a healthy Caucasian in that age bracket would be lower.

Risk rises as we know with age, 5-18 have minimum risk of hospitalization or death, risk of death is about 0.03% for someone in their 20s and 8% for someone over 80.

All based on CDC data, so 29 million cases and 525k deaths.

I wasn’t trying to overstate it - I was just pulling a figure off the top off my head that I though I saw in a HSE presentation the other day. As I said in my point I agree that the death risk for someone in their 30’s is pretty low

[The_Most_Infamous]

@the_man_himself

Then you should do your bit for reopening by taking the vaccine

Jaysus - maybe the government could do their bit first and make the HSE a fit for purpose operation.

A total and utter shambles that is well funded too mind per capita.

[Tierneevin1979]

Stop using the word proof when to comes to science, there is no such concept. It also makes you look like an idiot when you criticize others for being irrational.

There are risks with Covid and there are risks with vaccines. The risks from Covid are now reasonably well understood, there is no data whatsoever on the long term risk of Covid vaccines, especially mRNA vaccines, although it is believed to be low. For a person who is in a vulnerable category, we can reasonably say that the risk from Covid is far greater than the risk from one of the vaccines. For a young healthy person there is minimal risk from Covid, so it is perfectly reasonable to be concerned about long term effects of a vaccine when we have no long term data.

[Heyyoubehindthebushes]

Theres a risk to everything. Its like yourman on rte last year. In icu for covid, 32 no underlying conditions suddenly after covid he has diabetes. Now did anyone think that he may have been undiagnosed diabetic prior to covid? No its a long covid problem

[The_Most_Infamous]

There is no need to wait - we need to get on with things and open up.

Lockdowns in my opinion are doing a lot more harm than good.

[The_Most_Infamous]

@Tierneevin1979

Stop using the word proof when to comes to science, there is no such concept. It also makes you look like an idiot when you criticize others for being irrational.

There are risks with Covid and there are risks with vaccines. The risks from Covid are now reasonably well understood, there is no data whatsoever on the long term risk of Covid vaccines, especially mRNA vaccines, although it is believed to be low. For a person who is in a vulnerable category, we can reasonably that the risk from Covid is far greater than the risk from one of the vaccines. For a young healthy person there is minimal risk from Covid, so it is perfectly reasonable to be concerned about long term effects of a vaccine when we have no long term data.

+1 , well said mate.

[glenshane]

@Heyyoubehindthebushes

The reason why there is a rise in autism is more diagnosis etc

Really? So having autism and appearing to be thick present themselves similarly? I sat through a few hours of testing with my young lad. I could be wrong but I dont remember academic ability featuring

[The_Most_Infamous]

@the_man_himself

@The_Most_Infamous

Does the social distancing, mask wearing and washing hands not achieve that though mate?

Clearly not.

I’m not a scientist but nobody ever said that masks would get rid of Covid. They are a measure to limit the spread, not eliminate it.

I’m fairly against lockdown myself but have no time whatsoever for this anti-vaxx stuff that is creeping in here.

The vaccine manufacturers are not claiming their vaccines will eliminate covid either mate.

I’m not anti-vaxx at all, did you get the flu jab last winter?

[glenshane]

@backinatracksuit

I don’t mean that to sound cold but you need to put it into context,

You have some notion of yourself. You’re in absolutely no position to tell me what I need to put into context. I’ll put it down to a lack of self awareness and bad manners and leave it at that.