Coronavirus - Here for life (In high population density areas)

Western countries went for lockdown because they saw it "worked’ in China, and were in a blind panic in March 2020 when it finally dawned on them that a highly infectious air borne virus could actually travel between countries. Never mind the fact that a Chinese style lockdown could never be implemented in a western country, and because a western style lockdown does not stop infection spread you have to stay locked down forever or until enough people are vaccinated. That was never going to happen, not in a western country where most people have zero fear of their government, and a significant number have contempt.

The only thing western lockdowns achieved was maintaining a huge percentage of the overall population susceptible to infection in the March to late summer timeframe, who were always going to be prone to infection when you try and open up. We managed to keep that 80+% of the population safe from a mild disease, while failing utterly to protect the most vulnerable in care homes. We did nothing to boost the overall health of the population, actually the opposite, cancelling cancer screenings and other non Covid procedures, annual check ups, etc.

The result of all this was going into the most dangerous season for respiratory diseases with a large majority of people who had no immunity to a new virus. A virus that was always going to spread wildly once people started spending more time indoors and socialized more for the holidays. How do you propose stopping people spending time indoors and socializing? Humans, who’s primary behavior is socializing.

On balance focused protection was the right approach imo, put your efforts into protecting those that are most at risk. Why the fuck are there still outbreaks in nursing homes, almost a year later? If that doesn’t convince you of the utter incompetence of governments, nothing will.

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Hope all is well, but how do you know this is where they picked it up?

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Revised

Lockdown is a blunt instrument but there are no viable alternatives that have been shown to work. ‘Isolate and protect the vulnerable’ is just simplistic raimeis from the likes of Sunetra Gupta and Anders Tegnell. Sweden tried it and even with a relatively compliant population it failed. So the choice for western governments was either the half arsed lockdown or the UK and US approach of let it rip.

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@mikehunt taking on all comers here. Has to be admired.

I’ve even got @Tim_Riggins and @Fulvio_From_Aughnacloy on the same side.

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This lad had it worked out a year ago. It was that obvious

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Borris was right in his initial approach so but wavered under public pressure

I know it’s very unlikely but maybe tierneevin could be wrong?

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The US and UK did not let it rip, that’s just a lie and one you keep repeating. Our lockdown in California was stricter than Europe. We were the first in the US with a stay at home order, and while restrictions were eased somewhat in late summer, we were back in strict lockdown by early December. Bars for example were never opened. Yet, we have (relatively) horrendous numbers at present. But lockdowns work right?

There is no statistical difference between Europe and the US in terms of deaths per capita. there are some outliers, mostly countries in Europe / states into the US that are sparsely populated.

Deaths per million:
Countries that you claim let it rip, UK and US: 1,245, 1,188.
Countries that you claim did better by having half assed lockdowns:
Italy: 1,388. Czech Rep: 1,293. Spain: 1,131. France: 1,056.

It doesn’t look that different does it? In fact it would suggests it made no difference what was done in these respective countries, the outcome is the same. Similar numbers of Covid deaths, all having similar problems now.

This Brazilian variant is something to be very worried about

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In 2019 could you ever have imagined people would be fined by police for going for a cycle?

John Bull has banned travel from Brazil, they are only letting in British and Irish nationals returning, John Bull always looks after paddy

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The issue is incompetent government. The approach of focused protection may be the right one, but in March 2020 the ability of governments to actually implement it was probably close to zero. But here we are a year later and we seem no better at protecting the most vulnerable. So they went with half assed lockdowns, the easy approach. But one that also doesn’t work, just kicks the can a bit down the road. Well, we’ve reached the end of that road and have found what it entails.

It’s entirely likely that given the constraints faced, no approach actually “works”, and the number of Covid deaths per capita will be the same in all western countries. It’s definitely the way it’s trending.

To suggest that numbers would be no worse if there was no lockdown is just ludicrous. The UK and US were lead by headbangers with interest only in self preservation. Their numbers could and should be a lot lower.

This is the sort of gibberish Gupta was bladdering on about. ‘Focused protection’ sigh.

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The numbers in Italy, Spain, Czech Rep, and France are the same as the UK and US. Is that because they are led by headbangers, and their numbers should be much better? If your claimed let it rip approach in the UK and US is no worse than the lockdown approach in these other countries, what was the point of lockdowns?

There is no evidence that western style lockdowns saved lives. Every study that has been done, and there are many, points to voluntary changes in people’s behavior as the dominant factor that impacts the spread of the disease, hospitalizations and deaths. Mandated measures like stay at home orders have no effect, as people are still allowed to wander into shops, pick up the virus, and take it home.

Who knows.

Well in the case of NPHET, there were reports about a nursing home in Kerry from HIQA being totally Covid non compliant in June. It is unclear as to what was done but what we know is that HIQA have members on NPHET. Said nursing home was then riddled with it in October, with the HSE having to take over. I have looked at NPHET Board minutes and I would have thought a flick through reports on the place where 50% of your biggest problem (i.e. mortality) occurs but I don’t see much mention of it amongst the army of them who dial in on Zoom…

We know that fortnightly testing began in nursing homes in June, which NPHET examined on increasing to weekly in October.

The HSE came up with a plan in November for NPHET, which they endorsed.

3 days ago this was posted, so clearly it hasn’t started yet.

Herr Holohan has said previously that it doesn’t matter what we do on nursing homes so long as there is community transmission, so I don’t think they’ve ever been in a mad rush.

I know, what a strange approach eh? Put the effort into protecting the people who are at 100X the risk of serious disease and death.

Hopefully this will lead to our roads being a bit safer

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