What does that even mean? Did we ever get zero hiv? We have zero small pox and zero polio due to decades of vaccine programs to erraticate those diseases. With no stopping the world, it went on around it woth people vaccinated woth a level of protection that was never near 100%
It means the lunatics have taken over the asylum. If Ireland were serious about suppressing let alone eliminating Covid they would have stopped all travel from the UK months ago or a year ago. 90% of the cases in the UK are now the delta variant. But Ireland being Ireland they enforced MHQ on people travelling from Africa and South America, but not from the country attached to them physically thatâs riddled with the most dangerous variant. How many people travel from the UK to Ireland each day, compared to Africa or Brazil?
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Youâre alleging lies are being spread about vaccines. By who? And where?
I can certainly point you in the direction of people who are telling lies. They arenât proper scientists, researchers people in the relevant medical fields or reputable journalists.
One of them, an Irish guy I wonât name, has been very popular on this forum over the last year.
2 doses of AZ are 92% effective at preventing hospitalisation by Delta.
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That statement is utter rubbish â and dangerous rubbish, at that, and therefore should be called out. You should know better â a lot better.
1 Define âat more riskâ. A person incurs, by being vaccinated, greater risk of exactly what scenario? Of dying?
2 Define âriskâ, since you deploy the term, in the necessarily broader terms that inexorably apply above and beyond individual choice. You broached someone achieving a better situation for themself in a society without a lockdown or any virus-related restrictions. What about the risk of passing the virus contracted by your unvaccinated self to someone else, a scenario that would inevitably occur in your picture? Do you feel entitled to bring about this scenario, on whatever scale? If so, why? How did you come by this enlarged sense of entitlement?
3 But do give us the supposed figures that indicate a vaccine for this virus is more dangerous than contracting the virus. Who offered this intelligence? The keto diet-selling Ivor Cummins?
More broadly, are you prepared to come clean about your portfolio of prejudices, centred on complete hostility to any and all state-initiated actions? You are like someone hostile to ice cream that will not admit to being a vegan. Your attitude to Covid-19 is not based on what you have learned about Covid-19 and related vaccines. Instead your attitude to Covid-19 is based on your complete hostility to state-initiated actions, hostility fully hatched well before early 2020. Why not be honest on this front? I mean, how do you justify, given said hostility, driving on the roads every day? Road travel is dependent on the state, directly or indirectly, in most countries.
The only thing more dangerous than Covid-19 is this kind of toxic rubbish. You should know better.
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According to one recently published study, another recently published study has it at a 70% reduction in hospitalizations. The 60% number I referenced for Astra Zeneca refers to infection or milder disease not hospitalization, so I agree all vaccines currently seem to be preventing most serious illness. Iâm not arguing at all against vaccination, but itâs foolish to think vaccination programs will eliminate Covid when at least 30% of the population will not get vaccinated and new variants will continue to emerge. We are struggling in the US to get to 50% vaccinated.
New details from today
I donât think vaccinations will do that either. Iâd say 71% is good for these vaccines and more than most expected.
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My man in Russia tells me they are struggling to give the sputnik away. The Russian news has been telling everyone Pfizer and them are shit and killing everyone. The Russians have taken the pragmatic view that if the Pfizer isnât safe thereâs no way they are taking Vlad juice.
Blame many years of bullshit right wing media propaganda for that.
And it wonât get any better. GB News started last night. It will poison an already poisonous public discourse in Britain to a new level.
Oh my, how you fall for Western propaganda.
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By Killen, scally, mcdonkey and the rest of ISAG. What they are saying is blatant lies. The vaccine works. The Indian variant isnât killing indiscriminately. They are painting this doomsday picture that the vaccines donât work. Thatâs lies. Itâs unscientific and they are only pushing their agenda. Despite the fact they have been wrong every single time.
Yes you are right there are other people on the other side telling lies, I accept that but you need to look at the facts yourself and make an informed decision, not listen to these headbangers. The fact they are giving airtime on public broadcast shows there is no reputable journalists in this country. They might as well leave the liars on the other side on for balance at least.
The vaccines work. Against all variants. Its a matter of reducing risk not elimination which is a pipe dream
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Are you seriously trying to claim that right wing media, which Americans eat up, doesnât bear a major part of the responsibility?
Seriously?
When are you going to man up and admit that the insane propaganda you have shamelessly indulged here for years has massively harmful effects on society?
America has been divided into tribes by it. And the younger people in the Republican tribe are fodder for Joe Rogan, Alex Jones and Ayn Rand ultra-individualist rot.
90% for over 65s is a pathetic figure by the way.
Theyâre painting a doomsday scenario because they want to be the heroes who stopped Covid. They are seeing time run out on that. Killeen is happy to lie about MHQ stopping other variants, when HIQA themselves just authored a paper saying it was clear that it couldnât work when you donât have it to your nearest neighbours for example.
These people want a role from and centre.
Youâre also correct @Heyyoubehindthebushes on the media. Both the Guardian and FT undertook some disgraceful reporting on the effectiveness of AZ vs. the SA variant for example. That had consequences in Europe in terms of people refusing to take it when offered. Macron did not help that either with his quasi effective garbage.
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You are alleging ISAG say the vaccines donât work. Thatâs literally the exact opposite of their position.
Theyâve been proven correct again today, as Britain delays its reopening, as it will probably do again in four weeksâ time. Have a wee think about why they keep proved right and why you keep being proved wrong.
Link it, please. And say why it was âdisgracefulâ.
Unfortunately the sad reality of what we are dealing with this pandemic, on this forum as much as anywhere else, is an insane right wing culture war, where anybody who has ever urged caution has been shouted down with pseudoscientific bluster.
Posters here seem to take their personas very seriously and when theyâre wrong they donât like it one little bit.
May I remind you that you were quoting Ivor Cummins and Graham Neary ad nauseum here last year. Well done, well done, what a contribution to collective knowledge that was.
Youâre rightâŚI didnât look at any data, I was just trying to be a WUM. Sure its obvious that the vaccine is doing a grand job against the virusâŚif youâre in a âvulnerable groupâ youd be mad not to horse it into you. I havenât heard of anyone getting covid after even the first shot. Right enough a local pe teacher has been off for months with some inflammation of the heart musclesâŚpersonally i think he was mad to take it, but itâs none of my business. I might even take it myself once the clinical trials have been completed
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Backtrack alert. You were clamped badly and you canât get out of it. Back under the table with you
Give us this data source, then. One PE teacher seems a rather meagre control group.
And there were other questions. I am curious as to why an otherwise sensible person can be so irrationally hostile to state actions per se. Due to this hostility, you made a completely unqualified and unnuanced statement, which was dangerous rubbish. You should know better.
You are the poster child for the propaganda of Ayn Rand. Who came from Russia. And whose âthoughtâ is a major contributor to the most insane ultra-individualist US discourse, the one youâve been pushing for most of a year now that says now that younger people should refuse the vaccine. Because theyâre âalright, Jackâ. Well, theyâll probably be alright. Unless theyâre not.