There are a whole host of things we do not know about viruses. What we do know is their whole purpose is to gain entry into a hostâs cells and replicate. They adapt and mutate in order to achieve this. The likelihood of us being able to eradicate coronavirus is extremely low. Ask yourself have we ever managed to eradicate influenza viruses, or have we just learned to live with them?
Applying statistical methods to the uncertainty and assumptions attached to PCRs, and factoring in the absolutely scandalous way that Covid deaths were counted, the numbers are highly unreliable at best and possibly even completely unusable. I have held an opinion, rightly or wrongly, from early 2020 that the medicine will potentially be worse than the disease.
It is perfectly reasonable to be very worried or petrified even of the virus. Thankfully, there are now means for people to allay their fears via vaccination, personal hygiene, social distancing, and personal choices (e.g. avoiding crowds, isolating). I find it most uncomfortable, however, to even contemplate mandatory vaccinations, mandatory facemasks or NZ-style lockdowns. We need more research into the risks posed by wearing masks (e.g. microplastic inhalation, compromised cognitive performance, increase in stress hormones levels), the long-term impact of experimental gene therapies, and so on. Before we fully understand the benefits and the risks, we should be following the precautionary principle to mitigate the potential physiological effects, psychological effects, and the health consequences of the mandates.
I really fret for the youth and what sort of lives they will have growing up. No more than viruses, they will adapt, but that is not necessarily a good thing. We are social creatures, and we thrive on contact, closeness, and all things in between. Take those things away, and what are we left with?
Who are the âanti vaxx crewâ? I seriously doubt there are too many people posting here that have not had numerous vaccines in childhood and adulthood. Taking an experimental, novel gene therapy, with less than 12 months of data on side effects, is a personal choice. Weighing up the risks and the benefits and acting accordingly does not make someone anti-vaccine. Surely, it makes them pro-safety. Personally, I think forcing people to take an experimental drug in order to partake in society is a disgusting overreach of the governmentâs powers. I hope a legal challenge shows the legislation is ultra vires and invalid, but time will tell.
Not on here but the Internet in general I believe we are speaking about. I got the thong but donât think children need it. But these days your fucked into the looney bucket.
Not getting 150% of the population means an excuse for lockdowns. I agree with vaccines for the vulnerable and those who volunteer. I also have disagreed with any form of restrictions since May 2020, again people have their own choice not to engage with the public. And Iâm accused of being a murderer for this opinion
What do you mean by this? You want with mandatory vaccines for the vulnerable and those who volunteer? The vulnerable and those who volunteer have the choice of taking a vaccine, if they so choose.
Yes, I was referring to the internet in general, stuff that was being reported here, three or four anonymous lads and a professional WUM on a very very obscure regional forum hardly represent the anti-vaxx movement
Youâre saying he wanted to be vaccinated but hadnât done so o yet? That sounds a bit fishy in fairness
It is a very, very strange reading of the precautionary principle that focusses on masks and fully tested and approved vaccines and not Covid itself, which has killed millions of people and brought societies to their knees.
One of the ironies of US style libertarian opposition to mask or vaccine mandates is that libertarians so constantly invoke the âFounding Fathersâ of the USA. Yet the founding fathers of the USA were in favour of vaccine mandates and regularly invoked them, successfully.
Only collective responsibility and collective action can solve this problem, as is the case with all of the worldâs current major problems. Relying on individuals wonât cut it, because individuals by nature tend to be selfish.
Children do not exist apart from the rest of society. This problem relies on whole population action, or as close to it as can be achieved.
Children and younger adults have less risk - though itâs far from no risk, the unvaccinated of all ages carry greater risk of death or long term illness as far as being infected with Covid is concerned. But the greater the unvaccinated population, the more Covid that will be around. Selfishly invoking that lesser risk as a reason not to be vaccinated carries consequences for the whole population, especially the elderly.
This is a problem which requires an acceptance of the principle of societal solidarity to have any real hope of being solved or at least greatly lessened in the short to medium term.
A question I would ask to the âlibertariansâ among us is: should individuals with HIV or AIDS have the freedom to not tell anybody they may want to have sex with that they are infected? Should they exercise âfreedomâ by having unprotected sex with an uninfected individual who is unaware of their prospective partnerâs infection? Does the prospective uninfected partner have the right to know?
How far does freedom in the name of spreading deadly illness go?
This is a nonsense comparison given that a person who is vaccinated can also spread the virus, and are perhaps practically more likely to so so as they are likely to have mild or no symptoms, so they may not know they are infected. How would you know the difference between a vaccinated versus unvaccinated asymptomatic carrier of Covid? You wouldnât.
An unvaccinated person who unknowingly is infected and is shedding virus who walks into a bar and spends a few hours there is likely to infect others. A vaccinated person who unknowingly is infected and shedding virus is also likely to infect others. Most likely the safest person to be around is a person that has had Covid previously, especially Delta, but ZeroCoviders want to dismiss these people.
Obviously nobody whether vaccinated or not should expose others to infection, thatâs the only valid comparison, people who know they are infected and behave irresponsibly.
@Cheasty, just to add to the above, the example you put forward is not a freedom. You are entitled to your own personal freedom except where regulated by law. If someone knows they are infected with HIV and has sex with another person without disclosing it, that is criminal transmission of and/or criminal exposure to HIV. In or around 600 people across the world have been convicted of HIV exposure or transmission. Iâd rather not stray off topic down the rabbit hole of HIV-related laws, as for sure a number of those convicted did not have a âguilty mindâ.
Also, your analogy of HIV / AIDS to make a point on SARS-CoV-2 / COVID-19 is a faulty comparison. The survival probability for COVID-19 is several orders of magnitude greater than that of AIDS. The number of people that die from COVID-19 that didnât already have one or more comorbidities (or were not already beyond the average life expectancy) is statistically insignificant.
Appearing at a virtual conference hosted by NUI Galway today, Dr Mike Ryan said that despite the success of vaccine programmes, the use of masks to curb the spread of the virus âwill probably extend for a very, very long time."
It could easily be argued through the same libertarian logic that says that unvaccinated hospital or care workers should be allowed treat vulnerable patients, that it should be a âfreedomâ. But you accept thereâs a line there as regards HIV/AIDS and that itâs not acceptable to knowingly engage in activity that might spread it to others.
But in reality itâs the same principle. The right, or lack of right, to spread a killer disease through personal choice, or as I would term it, lack of responsibility, both on an individual and societal level.
Given that you accept there is a line, the only question in our differences becomes where the line is drawn.
As regards Covid, I think the amount of real world misery and disruption it has caused necessitates a fairly draconian line, wherever that line is.
