What is the logic of taking the contact details of people in indoor dining when they have to be vaccinated? Vaccinated persons do not have to isolate if they are a close contact- is it to âprotectâ unvaccinated workers?
Reopen.europa.eu
When somebody engages in gaslighting, Iâll call it out. Claiming that schools are safe now is pure gaslighting.
Covid flows towards the path of least resistance, which means the highest unvaccinated age groups. That is school going children. It is increasingly concentrating in those age groups.
And thatâs actually a big difference between now and this time last year.
Will the vaccination be rolled out to those age groups in time to stop it rampaging among them? Doesnât look like it to me.
Yes. Itâs based on a logical reading of the situation. That is the inescapable conclusion. We havenât taken a cautious approach all through. We did not last Christmas.
Is it? Israel removed restrictions. Their death figures went up into the 50s and 60s in a population of nine million.
Has the UK been responsible? Averaging 143 deaths per day now?
Denmark would be comparable alright, 74.8% of their population vaccinated, 1% more than us, but they were starting out from a lower base of virus in the community.
And knowing the Danes, I bet they have a whole load of protections inbuilt that we donât. Sick pay, ventilation, more responsible socialising culture, lower average size of household etc.
It might work for them, it might not.
Personally I have become more optimistic about how vaccines will hold up in the long run over the last week or so, but schoolchildren remain largely unvaccinated.
I just think itâs not right at all that we are pushing them in there and basically telling them to get the virus.
If and when we get them vaccinated, thereâs a chance we in Ireland could be largely done with this.
The rest of the world wonât be though.
Ok, on the âgaslightingâ (a word that no one uses), itâs completely unreasonable to label the stateâs approach to schools as such. Youâre saying the state is lying to us and is a bad faith actor and purposely risking childrenâs health while lying about it. Thatâs nonsense really.
The approach most the way through the pandemic has been schools are safe. When and why has this changed?
Youâve picked out Israel and the UK as comparators. Neither are a good comparator. As you well know. Next.
You ignored consideration of other reasons for opening schools, especially for the most vulnerable.
The differences in the dynamics of border interactions in Ireland are incomparable to almost everywhere in Europe. These communities are completely intertwined in a way that simply doesnât happen elsewhere. They are the one country. To compare that to Denmark and Germany or France and Italy, who all speak different languages is ludicrous.
But NI operates different restrictions, and has had the highest rate of Covid in Europe, maybe even the world at one point. That bleeds in here, inescapably.
Youâre entirely wrong there. People travel freely over and back across borders in the EU daily. Itâs one of the main points of the flipping thing.
Youâre contention about the border with the UK doesnât stand up to scrutiny at all.
I think they are lying to us, or basically giving assurances that they know they are not in a position to give, which amounts to lying. They are gambling.
As the government gambled before, and lost.
All your other points are addressed in a previous reply I gave to you.
They do not have the level of community interaction that communities on either side of the border in Ireland do.
Strabane and Lifford are basically the same town FFS sake. Going from Buncrana to Derry for a night out is like somebody from Patrickswell heading into Limerick City.
Ok. I suppose that remains to be seen.
Personally I would prefer us to take the approach that aligns with what the rest of the EU is doing. Weâve taken an exceptionalist approach at various stages throughout the crisis and weâve derived no benefit from it at all.
I said about a year ago that the endgame in this thing is it becomes an endemic disease that we live with. I know your view was/is different. Anyway it seems we are now in the initial forays into that stage. It does have to happen sometime and we are still taking a more cautious approach than most. I donât think that amounts to gaslighting.
Most people in the South Tyrol region of Italy speak German moreso than Italian. It shares a border with Austria.
Plenty of similar situations in other regions.
Iâm certain there are many communities across Europe that would tend to disagree. Personally I have very little contact with anyone from patrickswell.
Theyâre also dealing with much bigger populations each side which should increase risk.
The point maintains that the border with the UK cannot be blamed for everything. Of course it has some effect but you canât blame it for everything nor maintain it as a reason to keep restrictions. We have countries that similarly share borders with red zones that have lower vaccination rates and have removed restrictions much earlier and yet have better outcomes.
In light of that for you to be so definite on the effect of the border with the UK is just wrong.
1 Like
The way I see it is this. Portugal has the highest vaccination rate in Europe at 83 or 84% of total population or something like that. They are lifting all restrictions on October 1st.
They will be a guinea pig as to how much high vaccination rates will protect against Covid spread. They will be as close to a real life trial as possible to whether you can have herd immunity against this thing or not.
So we will have somewhat of a pointer as to what awaits us as a society.
Iâm quietly optimistic they might do quite well.
Denmark has removed all restrictions weeks ago.
2 Likes
Youâre happy for Portugal to proceed on Oct 1 but not for Ireland to proceed on Oct 22?
That doesnât make any sense.
Sorry but there is no way you can compare any other border in Europe with Irelandâs. You justâŚyou canât. So stop it.
Theyâre about 8-9% behind Portugal in terms of vaccinations.
Iâve already said what I have to say about Denmark.
Ok great. You get to decide whatâs relevant and whatâs not, despite clear evidence to the contrary.
1 Like
Thatâs literally what youâre doing. Youâre saying that an apple is the same as an orange.
So Denmark are behind Ireland and Portugal in vaccinations, have removed all restrictions, and are having better outcomes?
Does this not at least give you some pause for thought on some of youâre definitive pronouncements?