Zero covid is an impossibility. Itâs genuinely just stupid that you wonât admit that. It undermines every relevant point you make. Youâre a stopped clock, but youâre stuck on wrong.
How is zero tolerance for Covid an impossibility? How is Zero Covid an impossibility if you vaccinate everybody three times? It is the likelihood of such a course.
Letâs map out the alternative. Your alternative, what you are proposing - and of course you will deny this because you are a coward, is the Covid situation in Austria right now.
15k cases a day in a population of 8.9 million and 50-60 deaths a day.
That is not a sustainable situation - it is a situation which paralyses societies - and Austria recognises it. Which is why they are proposing to make vaccination mandatory by law.
What you are proposing - though are too cowardly and deluded to acknowledge it - is the permanent paralysing of societies.
This is what âCorona centrismâ has led us to.
âCorona centrismâ is the true extremism.
Are you sure now three doses will do it??
I am not sure of that though I believe there are very reasonable grounds to hope that it will. What I am sure about is we have to saturate populations with vaccines until this existential threat of a virus is removed.
More and more countries beyond Austria are going to start realising that very soon.
So youâve pivoted from zero covid to three shots will do it? So you admit that your zero covid stance was too wrong then, or are you too much of a coward for that?
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You have to aim achieve zero Covid through a combination of universal vaccination - minimum triple dose - and non-pharmaceutical measures.
This is a war like situation in its seriousness.
You still donât grasp that.
Anybody who doesnât grasp that is terminally deluded.
Itâs like believing you can live in a house which is on fire.
So you still wonât admit that the zero covid strategy you were banging on about is and always was an impossibility?
Iâd have some respect for your views if you could admit that you for it wrong, particularly in light of changed circumstances.
Imagine not knowing pregnant women have regular checkups throughout their pregnancyâŚ
Who was that bro?
some smashing contributions here this morning, but really before we delve into a 0 (zero) covid discussion id like @Bandage to give the state of play
@Arthur 's point on the reality where people do not change their behavior is 100% spot on, and that is why @Tassotti , I and @Tank who posting here with a sense of realism are fundamentaly aware that a full L5 lockdown is an absolute certainty.
People do not change behaviour, it needs to be mandated to people, if pubs are open, youâre going to go, if you need to go to Mace to get x4 cans of Carling for MOTD youâre not going to stand out in the rain and wait until people come out, youâre going to run in there with your jumped pulled up over your face to impersonate a mask. Our match tonight, are the kids going to avoid each other? , birthday parties, are kids going to all stand in a 2, square box in a leisure center? are lads going to stay at home Netflix on when the boozer is packed with their pals watching December EPL? no wayâŚ
So, âTonyâ has given his intention, it will be proven that these current measure arent worth the steam off his piss, cases will go up and slap, full L5
Now, âTonyâ has said in that wonderful dictatorial tone " We simply cant trust people to behave over Christmas", so and i kmow @tank and i are differing here, when do you lock down? - @Tank made good case for before Christmas, my feeling is âTonyâ will allow his porjections become some form of reality at least he will have trend data to support his model⌠I think on Dec27 itll be full L5 until min march 17, Primary schools will not go back either
On âanti vaxxersâ the great TFK term, I asked before who exactly are these people? , surely never in the history of the state has such a tiny minority had such an impact on society?
any âanti vaxxâ thing I saw has resembled as i said about 20 lads who resemble a few communists with beards crossed with lads holding black flags like youâd see at a rally for fellas supporting dessie o hare or an anti internment protest in the 80s⌠are these the fellas responsible for the health service collapsing?
my 2 cents, sit back and enjoy the ride, full L5 is coming, there is absolutely nothing any of us can do about it so i wouldnt be getting too excited about it really⌠thereâll be some great Hoolahan moments over the next few weeks, but thatâll be it really
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What grounds are they? Because I wouldnât be surprised if we are in the same position this time next year again.
What are you talking about? Iâve always favoured the elimination of the virus. The method you use to eliminate the virus does not have to remain the same as the tools available to us to fight it evolve.
At the start, because we had no vaccines, the only way you could eliminate it was via lockdown and closing your borders and using contact tracing measures to eliminate any cases you did get.
Now, we have vaccines. But the current level of vaccination is not remotely enough. So we have to dramatically up the level of vaccination within populations, and continue to use all the non-phamaceutical measures available to us.
The delusion here about what is at stake is staggering. People are arguing about piddling irrelevancies like nightclub closing times and people ânot respecting their choicesâ.
If people want a free society in future - and that is what is at stake here - they are going to have to come to terms with the fact they will need to be triple vaccinated minimum, everybody will.
And if civil liberties have to be trampled on to get everybody vaccinated and ensure a free society in the future, well, we may well have to do that. Itâs grim but itâs cold, hard reality.
A little bit of freedom now may well mean long term tyranny.
Labane?
Very weak of you to applaud that. He talks about society collapsing but that is the collapse of society.
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Iâll be a long time getting over this. Full on fundamentalist right wing authoritarian ideology on display here.
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The L5 that is incoming will finish off a good few lads mentally
Cheasty here like a lad retarded from drink, fighting with everyone, doesnât remember what he said but only knows he was right
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Simple maths. Israel shows that an extensive booster campaign dramatically lowers cases. The danger is that if you donât extend it to the entire population, if you just stop there, the same problem will occur somewhere down the line, possibly next winter again.
Simple maths tells me that if the effect of the booster campaign in Israel (my understanding is it has only been rolled out to around half the population) was replicated across an entire population in terms of roll out (ie. if you have over 95% of the population triple vaccinated), the level of immunity becomes such that there is a good chance virus simply dies off.
Also, the longer we leave this virus to run rampant, the more the chance there is it will mutate again. Current R rate for Delta is estimated to be 5-8. If we got a variant that had an R rate of, say over 10, or over 15, I think then we are into a genuine nightmarish situation.
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They chance the dictionary definition of vaccines to ensure it is classed as a vaccine.
âWhy did CDC change definition for âvaccineâ? Agency explains | Miami Heraldâ Why did CDC change its definition for âvaccineâ? Agency explains move as skeptics lurk