Fidel Castro

[Tim_Riggins]

One very effective way to bring down your health problems is to get rid of the mentally ill.

Criminals 'in exodus from Cuba': US fears Castro emptying his jails -

During the last exodus of Cubans in 1980, Mr Castro created a crisis for the White House by sending criminals, drug addicts and mentally retarded people to the US.

[anon7035031]

[quote=“ChocolateMice, post:440, topic:23439, full:true”]
Capitalism leads to poverty? Surely not? [/quote]

The absence of capitalism causes poverty, or as the distinguished economist Deirdre (formerly Donald) McCloskey said “the only thing worse than being oppressed by a capitalist is not being oppressed by a capitalist”.

[iron_mike]

@Tim_Riggins

Things that are allowable for @Sidney and @Watch_The_Break

• intervening in foreign lands militarily
• torture
• firing squads for political opponents
• show trials
• locking your citizens in and not allowing them to leave
• forcing hundreds of thousands of your people to flee the country
• land theft
• bringing the world to the edge of nuclear war
• ruling unelected for half a century
• handing power to your brother

All of these actions are just means in the pursuit of socialism for the lads.

Is that the new Sinn Fein election manifesto?

[anon61956325]

Christ

[anon7035031]

[quote=“Sidney, post:439, topic:23439, full:true”]
I’m really not sure what relevance Ireland 2008-2013 has to Cuba in the 1950s, but if you want to argue it, the increase in poverty in this country in that time was caused mainly by the absence of financial regulation - the very thing you advocate as a “libertarian”. [/quote]

The relevance is the utter lunacy of people living in Ireland arguing the merits of a “poverty free” banana dictatorship in the Caribbean (where the poverty level is 26%, according to the Borgen Project, a well respected humanitarian non profit), while living in a country that has similar poverty levels to said banana dictatorship.

This isn’t the thread to argue it, but the increase in poverty in Ireland from 2008 to 2013 is directly due to the austerity measures taken by the government over that period. Austerity measures that were arguably unavoidable due to the reckless behavior of the prior government. The property boom ended in Ireland in 2006, and the global economy was heading into recession in 2007. Policy makers with functioning brains* would be reigning in government spending at that point. From 2006 to 2008 Irish government revenue from taxation fell by 30%. The governments response? Increase spending by 30%. That’s the primary reason for the IMF and ECB effectively taking the country over and imposing austerity.

• not this guy

[Fagan_ODowd]

[quote=“labane1917, post:445, topic:23439, full:true”]

@Sidney

I’m really not sure what relevance Ireland 2008-2013 has to Cuba in the 1950s, but if you want to argue it, the increase in poverty in this country in that time was caused mainly by the absence of financial regulation - the very thing you advocate as a “libertarian”. [/quote]

The relevance is the utter lunacy of people living in Ireland arguing the merits of a “poverty free” banana dictatorship in the Caribbean (where the poverty level is 26%, according to the Borgen Project, a well respected humanitarian non profit), while living in a country that has similar poverty levels to said banana dictatorship.

This isn’t the thread to argue it, but the increase in poverty in Ireland from 2008 to 2013 is directly due to the austerity measures taken by the government over that period. Austerity measures that were arguably unavoidable due to the reckless behavior of the prior government. The property boom ended in Ireland in 2006, and the global economy was heading into recession in 2007. Policy makers with functioning brains* would be reigning in government spending at that point. From 2006 to 2008 Irish government revenue from taxation fell by 30%. The governments response? Increase spending by 30%. That’s the primary reason for the IMF and ECB effectively taking the country over and imposing austerity.

• not this guy

Isn’t the Donald going to cut taxes and increase spending?

[Massey]

Ye but that’s ok.Nobody’s gonna have to pay taxes.Everybody’s gonna be rich.

[iron_mike]

Bang point proven. Capitalism eradicates poverty

[Sidney]

@Tim_Riggins

No you just don’t get it.

I have stated over and over that the US are hypocritical. In global affairs they have propped up dictators for various reasons over the years, which was wrong.

Have you? I sure don’t remember you ever saying that.

How many countries have the US invaded, bombed, propped up dictators in or supported coups in since World War II? How many times have they tried to assassinate Castro?

And you wonder why Castro didn’t like the US?

@Tim_Riggins

A guy like Pinochet was a scumbag. The left will tell us all about his human rights abuses. Michael D goes and gets awards for speaking out. When Thatcher dies it’s front and center on her legacy as Prime Minister.

People like Michael D go mental about Guantanamo Bay and human rights abuses (https://www.oireachtas.ie/parliament/mediazone/pressreleases/2010/name-1524-en.html), yet don’t have a problem with Castro’s forced labour camps, imprisoning his opponents and sending many to the firing squad. You look for balance.

Pinochet was a dictator who, with the help the US air force, overthrew a democratically elected government.

Castro overthrew a fascist dictatorship, and the people wholeheartedly supported him in doing so, unlike what happened in Chile.

There hasn’t been an extra-judicial execution in Cuba since 1959.

Pinochet is widely praised in the west. Maggie loved him. Milton Friedman defended him. Niall Ferguson is a big fan.

@Tim_Riggins

The US invades Iraq - its the worst thing ever. First thing you’ll go on about when Bush dies, Iraq and WMDs. Castro intervened in Africa and brought about 10s of thousands of deaths (you can read The Guardian contributor Lara Pawson’s work on this). First thing you look for, balance.

Tell us about the hundreds of thousands of deaths brought about by the support of apartheid South Africa and the US for the bloodthirsty UNITA and Jonas Savimbi, who violated numerous ceasefire agreements and refused to accept the results of democratic elections. Tell us about the invasions of apartheid South Africa. Tell us about the corruption they and the US supported by allowing UNITA to fund itself by selling diamonds illegally in the west. Tell us about the role of Paul Manafort and Roger Stone in getting funding for UNITA in the US.

Funny how when Savimbi was killed in 2002 the war suddenly stopped.

Cuba was invited to intervene to try and establish a broad based legitimate government in Angola. The US and apartheid South Africa fought to stop it at all costs. One more on the US’s list of disastrous cold war interventions.

Only last week you were on about your support for the Iraq War. You never did learn.

@Tim_Riggins

Castro reneged on a promise of democracy for half a century. You claim to love democracy. People like you claim to dislike the Monarchy because of hereditary privilege, yet you look for balance with Castro when he handed power off to his brother.

Castro reneged on a promise of democracy because there was no fucking way the US were going to allow a democracy which was in any way hostile to them or US business interests. It’s not as if there isn’t extensive evidence of what happened to such governments. Iran 1953, Guatemala 1954, Chile 1973, Nicaragua and El Salvador in the 1980s Angola as per above, Venezuela 2002 ae just the tip of the iceberg.

It’s like saying, “how rude of you not allow us to overthrow and probably kill you”.

Did the US ever try to overthrow and most likely kill Castro?

[quote=“Tim_Riggins, post:396, topic:23439”]You rail against corruption and the elites enriching themselves. Castro had properties across Cuba and a personal holiday island at one point. You look for balance.
[/quote]
It’s great that you’re so trusting of Cuban exiles out to do a hatchet job on him.

I can name you a leader closer to home who definitely did have a private island, however.

[quote=“Tim_Riggins, post:396, topic:23439”]Michael D and the likes demand for refugees to be treated fairly from the likes of Syria, yet you guys smear the million plus Cubans in Flordia as an irrelevance because they don’t vote for your team.
[/quote]
The Cuban vote splits almost 50-50 in Florida at this point.

Who has said anything about how Cuban immigrants shouldn’t be treated fairly?

Your guy is the one saying that. The Cubans who don’t like Castro are the “good immigrants” in your eyes simply because they don’t like Castro.

Again, the difference between the Cuban exiles and the Syrians is that one group is fleeing a war, the other is fleeing peace. But the ones that are fleeing war are apparently “the bad guys”.

@Tim_Riggins

Nobody minds a bit of hypocrisy as it is the only way the world will function at times, but from the likes of yourself, who preaches moral virtue in international affairs at every corner, it is hilarious. If when Pinochet had died and someone looked to give a “balanced” obit, you’d go ape. Nobody looks to make more political currency out of every grievance in the world than the left, but here they are going to bat for a guy just because he spearheaded their anti American fantasies.

As I’ve already said, there is plenty of western “balanced opinion” for Pinochet.

When somebody like Colm O’Gorman gives a genuinely balanced appraisal of Castro, conservatives savage him.

QED.

[anon7035031]

[quote=“Fagan_ODowd, post:446, topic:23439, full:true”]
Isn’t the Donald going to cut taxes and increase spending? [/quote]

What does Donald Trump’s policies have to do with the merits of a banana dictatorship in the Caribbean?

[Massey]

Capitalism encourages greed that’s all.

[Fagan_ODowd]

[quote=“anon7035031, post:450, topic:23439, full:true”]

@Fagan_ODowd

Isn’t the Donald going to cut taxes and increase spending? [/quote]

What does Donald Trump’s policies have to do with the merits of a banana dictatorship in the Caribbean?

What have Brian Cowens?

[HBV]

Does anyone at all have any idea what motivated Castro to deny the citizens of Cuba the right to leave the country every day of his 50 year rule?

[Tassotti]

Cuba was so great 1.5 million people risked their lives in shark infested waters trying to escape

[Ashman]

Communism encourages sloth .

[Tassotti]

hard work and communism don’t go together

[Fagan_ODowd]

If it wasn’t for the Communists you’d be speaking German over there.

[HBV]

I’m flabbergasted that Castro went to these lengths to lock them in. It seems a bit drastic, there’s always a few useless bastards you’d be only glad to see leave.

But why did he stop them? Nobody seems to know, I’m astonished none of the socialist students have covered this topic in their studies.

[Tassotti]

great piece of journalism here

http://www.independent.ie/opinion/columnists/ian-odoherty/ian-odoherty-none-of-us-should-be-surprised-at-el-presidentes-fawning-over-wests-last-socially-acceptable-despot-35252880.html

[Little_Lord_Fauntleroy]

funny that the two most successful people here @anon98850436 & @Massey are left wing & the two least successful @Tassotti & @gilgamboa are right wing