[quote=“Sidney, post: 820235, member: 183”]There’s only one person here who’s arguing for the sake of it.
This is just a guess, but I’d say Caffrey must have put at least some thought into coaching and tactical accumulation, otherwise Dublin wouldn’t have made such progress under his management. Or perhaps it was the Blue Book alone that brought about that progress?
As I said Caffrey was far from the only manager to employ motivational techniques. Joe Kernan was praised widely for showing Any Given Sunday to the Armagh team before the 2002 final, and getting Muhammad Ali to send a message to the team. Then in 2003, Armagh had some sort of satanic symbol on their jerseys to symbolise strength and togetherness. I don’t think those things contributed to Armagh winning an Ireland, but hey, if they felt it was worthwhile, who am I to argue? If Mickey Harte did something similar in 2003 with each Tyrone player having a personalised CD of motivational music made for them and I’m sure there are plenty of other examples that I’m not aware of. If those teams had lost, would those motivational tools have been the reason? Hardly. The Blue Book was nothing different to any of those things and was simply used as a stick to beat Caffrey with because Dublin lost to Tyrone in 2008.
Ciaran Whelan was a brilliantly talented player playing with an averagely-talented team. That is the main reason he didn’t win the All-Ireland medal his talents were more than worthy of. No different really to the many other superb players who didn’t win one. Alan Brogan if he had been born three years earlier would have met the same fate. He was just lucky enough to be still young enough to still be around when Dublin were able to bring through more talented players. Whelan sadly wasn’t.
I’m quite baffled as to the comment about what my reaction would have been if Pillar had been from anywhere but Dublin. Clearly Kev now counts mind reading amongst his powers.[/quote]
Sid you haven’t a fucking clue what you are talking about. The blue book is nothing like those other things you mention. It broke several basic rules of sports psychology.
Most of the other stuff you mention was in the day relaxation and diverting negative thoughts. The blue book was an entirely different thing. It’s skipped important parts of the process towards winning. It was lazy.
[quote=“caoimhaoin, post: 820242, member: 273”]Sid you haven’t a fucking clue what you are talking about. The blue book is nothing like those other things you mention. It broke several basic rules of sports psychology.
Most of the other stuff you mention was in the day relaxation and diverting negative thoughts. The blue book was an entirely different thing. It’s skipped important parts of the process towards winning. It was lazy.[/quote]
The 52-page book deals with a wide range of aspects including the challenge of the championship, intimidation by opponents, coping with favouritism, recovering from injury, inconsistent refereeing, unfair criticism, coming on as a sub, being substituted, making a mistake, starting a match poorly, taking the lead, recovering from a deficit, a dip in form.
The various categories are covered in bullet points, designed to equip players with an understanding of themselves and the game. However, most of the tips are extremely basic. It also outlines what was expected of the players on a line-by-line basis.
Most of that actually sounds pretty sensible to me.
I just find it amazing the crap you are coming out with…and its also quite scary that you just convince yourself you are right regardless of how others have proven you wrong…you’re even talking about anything Pillar done at club level being irrelevant and then a few posts later you say you learned from coaching and good coaches…where did you learn this?? at club level surely? you hardly just started coaching IC teams straight off the bat??..so why is it ok for you to say coach is good at club level because he coached you directly and then Pillar’s success at club level is irrelevant??..its madness…
and if your going to hammer a coach because he lost to the eventual all Ireland winner 4 years out of 5 ( twice beaten by what some consider the greatest team ever) you deserve to be called every name under the sun…
[quote=“scumpot, post: 820251, member: 182”]I just find it amazing the crap you are coming out with…and its also quite scary that you just convince yourself you are right regardless of how others have proven you wrong…you’re even talking about anything Pillar done at club level being irrelevant and then a few posts later you say you learned from coaching and good coaches…where did you learn this?? at club level surely? you hardly just started coaching IC teams straight off the bat??..so why is it ok for you to say coach is good at club level because he coached you directly and then Pillar’s success at club level is irrelevant??..its madness…
and if your going to hammer a coach because he lost to the eventual all Ireland winner 4 years out of 5 ( twice beaten by what some consider the greatest team ever) you deserve to be called every name under the sun…[/quote]
You’ll need a ladder there to get down from all the cherry picking.
You avoided my question about Na Fianna. How do you know he was good at football management there? He set up academy’s and volunteer’d in his spare time. Fair play. How do you know he just did not have a great crop? I have grown up seeing some dreadful coaches have success. It’s not the only barometer you know.
great comeback kev…really proving your points about Pillar…:rolleyes:
jog on…me and @Sidney[/USER] have torn enough strips off you…its only fair we leave a bit of carcass for @[USER=1137]chewy louie to feed on over on the hurling thread…he seems to be making short work of you over there…
[quote=“scumpot, post: 820256, member: 182”]great comeback kev…really proving your points about Pillar…:rolleyes:
jog on…me and @Sidney[/USER] have torn enough strips off you…its only fair we leave a bit of carcass for @[USER=1137]chewy louie to feed on over on the hurling thread…he seems to be making short work of you over there…[/quote]
Well you’d never be able to do it alone anyway. Who’d slap you on your ass and tell you you’re great if Sid wasn’t around.
Personally a concept like the Blue Book is not something that would particularly appeal to me, no more than Armagh’s symbol or Tyrone’s CD, but hey, who am I to talk, and who are you, for that matter? If even some of the Dublin players thought it was a help to them well then maybe it was worthwhile for them.
Did it contribute in any way to Dublin losing to Tyrone in 2008? No. Losing Alan Brogan to injury after five minutes and blowing numerous chances in the first 15 minutes did though.
[quote=“caoimhaoin, post: 820255, member: 273”]You’ll need a ladder there to get down from all the cherry picking.
You avoided my question about Na Fianna. How do you know he was good at football management there? He set up academy’s and volunteer’d in his spare time. Fair play. How do you know he just did not have a great crop? I have grown up seeing some dreadful coaches have success. It’s not the only barometer you know.[/quote]
regards football management…he managed na Fianna to 2 or 3 Dublin senior championships and one leinster…
regards a great crop…it was 3 minor finals in row they reached…thats 3 years…considering they are a city team more than one crop there I think you’ll agree…
[quote=“Sidney, post: 820235, member: 183”]There’s only one person here who’s arguing for the sake of it.
This is just a guess, but I’d say Caffrey must have put at least some thought into coaching and tactical accumulation, otherwise Dublin wouldn’t have made such progress under his management. Or perhaps it was the Blue Book alone that brought about that progress?
As I said Caffrey was far from the only manager to employ motivational techniques. Joe Kernan was praised widely for showing Any Given Sunday to the Armagh team before the 2002 final, and getting Muhammad Ali to send a message to the team. Then in 2003, Armagh had some sort of satanic symbol on their jerseys to symbolise strength and togetherness. I don’t think those things contributed to Armagh winning an All-Ireland, but hey, if they felt it was worthwhile, who am I to argue? If Mickey Harte did something similar in 2003 with each Tyrone player having a personalised CD of motivational music made for them and I’m sure there are plenty of other examples that I’m not aware of. If those teams had lost, would those motivational tools have been the reason? Hardly. The Blue Book was nothing different to any of those things and was simply used as a stick to beat Caffrey with because Dublin lost to Tyrone in 2008.
Ciaran Whelan was a brilliantly talented player playing with an averagely-talented team. That is the main reason he didn’t win the All-Ireland medal his talents were more than worthy of. No different really to the many other superb players who didn’t win one. Alan Brogan if he had been born three years earlier would have met the same fate. He was just lucky enough to be still young enough to still be around when Dublin were able to bring through more talented players. Whelan sadly wasn’t.
I’m quite baffled as to the comment about what my reaction would have been if Pillar had been from anywhere but Dublin. Clearly Kev now counts mind reading amongst his powers.[/quote]
Why do people be so hard on Ciaran Whelan? He had some superb games for Dublin.
When Kerry hockeyed Dublin in the 2009 Ireland QF under Gilroy, they had to bring on Whelan early in the first half and he was one of the few take the fight to Kerry. The following year, Dublin were edged out by Cork in the semi and there was view that Whelan was sorely missed at midfield and more of effort should have made to keep him on board… He delivered in his first game in 1996 on a beaten Dublin team and in his last game in 2009. In between he made an outstanding comtribution but tended to be blamed whenever Dublin were beaten. In my opinion he lacked support from those around him in his prime as Dublin had some average players in that era
[quote=“kerry1891, post: 820453, member: 1379”]Why do people be so hard on Ciaran Whelan? He had some superb games for Dublin.
[/quote]
because he was a dub and he wasn´t afraid to dish it out… Whelan was superb form dublin through bad times…he was a great player and leader…but a bird never flew on one wing as they say down your neck of the woods… @caoimhaoin is just talking serious muck …
keith barr was the same…everyone just saw him as a dirtbird from dublin but he was one of the best centre backs i ever saw…
[quote=“scumpot, post: 820460, member: 182”]because he was a dub and he wasn´t afraid to dish it out… Whelan was superb form dublin through bad times…he was a great player and leader…but a bird never flew opn opne wing as they say down your neck of the woods… @caoimhaoin is just talking serious muck …
keith barr was the same…everyone just saw him as a dirtbird from dublin but he was one of the best centre backs i ever saw…[/quote]
agreed re Whelan scumpot. superb player. Some used say that he wasn’t a 70min man. Sure there isn’t that many that dominate midfield for 70mins. There is probably none. Great servant of Dublin
[quote=“Sidney, post: 820259, member: 183”]Personally a concept like the Blue Book is not something that would particularly appeal to me, no more than Armagh’s symbol or Tyrone’s CD, but hey, who am I to talk, and who are you, for that matter? If even some of the Dublin players thought it was a help to them well then maybe it was worthwhile for them.
Did it contribute in any way to Dublin losing to Tyrone in 2008? No. Losing Alan Brogan to injury after five minutes and blowing numerous chances in the first 15 minutes did though.[/quote]
I know you don’t understand this crack, but it could have had an effect. Making the targets 100% and thinking about it all year. When you miss then with young players it creates a failure situation. It was madness, dozens of unrealistic goals. But sure ignore it. Outside of my general interest in it Sid, I work with a sports psychologist every week.
[quote=“caoimhaoin, post: 820502, member: 273”]He became very selfish at times and would go missing in big games. He had alot of good games, but underperformed an awful lot too.
Not sure why he is bringing Keith Barr up, most people appreciated his skills. Bizarre selection.
But anyway, it’s been fun seeing the 2 Dubs flapping around.[/quote]
flapping??..you´re delusional kev…we´re just trying to have a discussion but you seem to spout horeshit and then run off when asked to back it up…
you are a lunatic…plain and simple…
