An astonishing fuck up which could compromise the case against the man which actually matters - the lack of crowd control which almost certainly caused the deaths.
If the pigs fuck this one up they’ll never live it down. The DUUP won’t be able to defend them.
It’s regretful what happened and the responsibility will lie with those who were negligent in their duty but this could probably have happened in any place around. It’s something nobody ever imagined happening. It’s a tragedy and hopefully it will reduce the chances of it ever being repeated.
It took them less than three days - that’s impressive going even by their standards.
I wonder why @Rocko deleted his post? 
First time I ever went clubbing if was to Clublands in Cookstown with a friend’s fake id. Dave Pierce of Radio 1 played. Unreal standard of woman. Cookstown is a great spot, I hope this doesn’t ruin it.
Are you representative of the feeling locally? Have you spoken to anyone baying for blood?
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I’m pragmatic about it.
The reaction from what I’ve heard is one of finger pointing. Most of us here have probably frequented events or venues through the years where something like this could conceivably have happened if fate had it in store. Hindsight is not much use in prevention.
It’s a terrible tragedy and one that those who were there that night will have to live with for the rest of their lives. I hope the case gets its due process and is not meddled with but I don’t like the finger pointing and trying to pin the blame on one individual or a few individuals, there were many factors at play that night and it’s just a terrible tragedy.
Cookstown is a great party town and the hub of mid Ulster.
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A crush can happen anywhere if there is a big enough crowd and it isn’t controlled.
The hotel in question is not some fly by night operation, it’s been around for decades.
Owners and managers would have been well aware of the sort of crowds that could and would turn up, especially on Paddy’s night, and the time they’d turn up.
Crowd control is not rocket science. You throw up a few metal zig zag barriers like you get at concerts or even fabric ones like at airports.
We’ve heard nothing to say there were barriers, so we have to assume there were none. We’ve heard nothing about any other sort of crowd control in operation.
Was the event even all-ticket?
Basically if there’s been a similar pushing match at a previous event mickey will do a few years. Not much consolation to the families
Yes, it’s been holding events for years and there’s never being anything like that. Hindsight is wonderful but it’s not going to prevent the matter after it’s caused. As crass as it sounds, there would not have been a crush if people had behaved in an orderly fashion. It’s an absolutely terrible tragedy but I load a blame game in events like this, there were a huge number of factors at play here and hopefully lessons will be learned from this so we never see anything like it again.
Only once, off the top of my head - at Slane in 2009 walking from the bridge through the forest to the venue. The walkway was fenced in and there were no ticket checks. It felt genuinely claustrophobic in there.
You didn’t need hindsight to see how that could be dangerous and hindsight wasn’t needed at Hillsborough either to know the danger of the layout.
But I’ve never, ever felt in any danger at a club and never at a pub. Probably because I never attended rural nightclubs where hundreds of people were bused in to arrive at the same time. Hindsight shouldn’t have been needed to see the potential danger of that.
The whole point of crowd control is that a crowd doesn’t behave as one because it’s made up of hundreds or thousands of individuals who can’t think as one.
But crowds are also effectively sheep. People follow the person in front of them. Crowds need to be herded or guided into a safe formation because when there’s no framework of organisation, confusion reigns. If a crowd is big enough, crushes can happen easily without anybody pushing at all.
If you don’t have a safe system in place for queueing, a situation can easily arise where things spiral out of the control of any one individual.
The responsibility here is 100% on the venue.
I’d imagine we’ve all done dangerous or reckless things in our lives but thankfully, by the grace of God, we’ve never suffered consequences like what happened in Cookstown have never hit us.
I hope due process happens and if the hotel owners and management were negligent then it comes out but sometimes people naively overlook the worst that could happen, thinking it never will happen. I don’t see what blame or scapegoating achieves. They made mistakes and I hope the truth comes out but everyone involved there has their own little part to play and the stigma that this event will bring with it for the rest of their lives.
It’s just a tragic, tragic case and I don’t see what a head on a plate brings to any of the victims, their families or those there on that night who will be forever troubled by that night.
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So crowds are absolved from any blame whatsoever?
I think those who were involved in creating the surge will be forever troubled by their own actions.
They’re saying that a big cause was that the bouncers were shite and did nothing.
From my experience of monaghan most of the bouncers at these places aren’t proper bouncers, they’re just old bus drivers and the like looking for a few extra bob. But even in monaghan the forum nightclub has zig zag barriers.
Fucking harsh on the owner that people die over that though. He’s obviously not indifferent to the thought of kids dying in his hotel, he just never imagined anything like this happening.
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They’re just excited kids trying to get into a nightclub. We’ll be dead and gone and they’ll still be thinking about what happened that night.
I agree but it’s not a case of one problem, it’s a whole myriad of actions or inaction by different groups of people that resulted in this tragedy. The owners and management will take the biggest portion of that blame but it’s not only on them.
I hope there is no hush job and that the families get the truth but I’d have sympathy for the hotel owner here, we’ve all made mistakes in life, I think naivety had a lot to answer for here.
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If a crowd enters a situation and an area where crowd control should be in operation but isn’t in operation, yes, they are blameless.
The venue is 100% responsible for the safety of its patrons in this regard.
If too many people are let in, it’s on the venue and nobody else. If ticketless people are allowed to walk past an area where a cordon should be in place, the blame is 100% on those responsible for crowd control. If patrons cannot queue in safety, it’s on the venue
That’s utter bollocks in fairness. Individuals take responsibility for their own actions, if you were at the back of a queue and shoved and kept shoving forward then it’s something that will pray on your mind for the rest of your life.
If proper crowd control was in place this would not have happened.
If the bouncers were better organised this would not have happened.
If the kids at the back did not start shoving and shoving forcefully a static queue this would not have happened.
If the bus drivers did not just go and dump off their loads at all the same time and staggered the release of passengers, this would not have happened.
If the licensees had stricter regulations and inspections of these events, this would not have happened.
Unfortunately hindsight will never change the past and everyone there that night must examine their own role and try and move on with their lives.
Maybe it’s not the time for it but was there anything said about the fact that a bunch of underage kids were trying to get in? Surely after such a high profile event with underage folks involved the places licence could be revoked or withdrawn? I’m assuming it was a normal night there and not a teenage disco of some sort
The Psni were urging kids to come forward and said they wouldn’t be looking into that aspect of it, but it’s no different than the reality for most rural nightclubs