GGA Player Power Part II

241

[quote=“caoimhaoin”]Where is that Mac. I was trying to compare the situations. It was then explained the way your chairman had delt with things. I believe thats the way it should be delt with. Ultimately i don’t think players should have a final say in a manager or anything, but they certainly should be heard. This hasn’t happened in Cork. I also mentioned a few other counties. Waterford delt with theirs badly, so did Offaly. As it happens i thought Wexford delt with it correctly.
What i’m trying to say is that a little player influence or interaction isn’t a bad thing, once its used well.[/quote]

http://www.thefreekick.com/vbforum/showpost.php?p=124032&postcount=139

http://www.thefreekick.com/vbforum/showpost.php?p=123990&postcount=120

http://www.thefreekick.com/vbforum/showpost.php?p=123986&postcount=118

http://www.thefreekick.com/vbforum/showpost.php?p=123977&postcount=114

242

[quote=“farmerinthecity”]Stephen Ireland and Roy Keane lived across that boundary as well. So did three striking GAA panels.

Coincidence?[/quote]

Very little to do with each other and very different cases, so probably are a coincidence really.

The likes of Roy Keane and Stephen Ireland would have very little in common with most GAA players and are pure urban working-class lads who grew up on council estates. Bit of a chip on their shoulders I’d say.
Neither would have very much in common with each other either in terms of attitude etc. One was arguably too much of perfectionist the other is just a bit stupid and mentally weak. So totally different, just both good players and controversial.

I’d say the three controversial sporting cases coming from Cork are more likely to be because they have a relatively large population and also a relatively large number of top class sportsmen, so tend to be in the news more. There could be just as many controversial sporting characters in Longford but no one gives a shit cos they’re no good.

Don’t hear a huge amount of controversy over Denis Irwin, Jimmy Barry Murphy and Donal Lenihan for instance.

I’m not from Cork by the way but I do think that all this ‘typical Laois man, you wouldn’t see a fella from Offaly going on like that’ stuff is laughable. How does growing up one side of a boundary invented by the British way back when make you different from a fella the far side of that boundary.

243

[quote=“Mac”]http://www.thefreekick.com/vbforum/showpost.php?p=124032&postcount=139

http://www.thefreekick.com/vbforum/showpost.php?p=123990&postcount=120

http://www.thefreekick.com/vbforum/showpost.php?p=123986&postcount=118

http://www.thefreekick.com/vbforum/showpost.php?p=123977&postcount=114[/quote]

All say what i was saying, its player power. No matter what county or what way they go about it. Its player power. Its there now, we have to get on with it.

I had a different take on the Chairman issue in Wexford though. Was there not a failure of contact with Myler?
Anyway players are been asked their opinions on managers, in the past this was rare, now its common. Some players get treated with respect concerning their opinions (Wexford, Dublin, Tyrone, Kerry), some don’t (Cork). Some don’t deal with this properly (Cork, Waterford, Offaly). Are you getting me yet?
KK talk endlessly about the connection between CB, Manager, player and supporters. They are now going for 4-in-a-row. They have embraced the modern era, they have swallowed some pride. Certain People in Cork won’t do that.

244

[quote=“gola”]
I’m not from Cork by the way but I do think that all this ‘typical Laois man, you wouldn’t see a fella from Offaly going on like that’ stuff is laughable. How does growing up one side of a boundary invented by the British way back when make you different from a fella the far side of that boundary.[/quote]

The Normans, not the British. And thanks for kicking us off here on amateur psychology hour;).

245

[quote=“caoimhaoin”]All say what i was saying, its player power. No matter what county or what way they go about it. Its player power. Its there now, we have to get on with it.

I had a different take on the Chairman issue in Wexford though. Was there not a failure of contact with Myler?
Anyway players are been asked their opinions on managers, in the past this was rare, now its common. Some players get treated with respect concerning their opinions (Wexford, Dublin, Tyrone, Kerry), some don’t (Cork). Some don’t deal with this properly (Cork, Waterford, Offaly). Are you getting me yet?
KK talk endlessly about the connection between CB, Manager, player and supporters. They are now going for 4-in-a-row. They have embraced the modern era, they have swallowed some pride. Certain People in Cork won’t do that.[/quote]

You seem to change your mind every day. You started comparing Wexford with Cork yesterday using the example of player power and saying that this was inherent in both counties. You aluded to the fact that player power got rid of Meyler and that player power was in general wrong. But then it turns out today there is the exact same scenario in place within your own club but yet its perfectly acceptable there. Just double standards on your part thats all.

246

You’re welcome but I’m a professional psychologist in all but name. The preparation I put in would put a lot of those overpaid prima donnas over in England to shame.

There are certain character traits you would notice from time to time among certain county men but it’s definitely overplayed. Especially by GAA lads.
I suppose it’s hard to roar rabid abuse for 70 minutes if you go all Fox and the Hound and start thinking ‘do you know what old chap, we’re not really all that different you and me, we’re all god’s children’.

247

[quote=“gola”]
I suppose it’s hard to roar rabid abuse for 70 minutes if you go all Fox and the Hound and start thinking ‘do you know what old chap, we’re not really all that different you and me, we’re all god’s children’.[/quote]

If you havn’t already you should read some of Noam Chomsky’s analysis on it, how it relates to wider societal behavioural attributes. Difficult to refute.

248

What county man was Chomsky. Sounds like a typical Fermanagh man full of his own shite.

Summarise it for me there.

249

[quote=“gola”]Very little to do with each other and very different cases, so probably are a coincidence really.

The likes of Roy Keane and Stephen Ireland would have very little in common with most GAA players and are pure urban working-class lads who grew up on council estates. Bit of a chip on their shoulders I’d say.
Neither would have very much in common with each other either in terms of attitude etc. One was arguably too much of perfectionist the other is just a bit stupid and mentally weak. So totally different, just both good players and controversial.

I’d say the three controversial sporting cases coming from Cork are more likely to be because they have a relatively large population and also a relatively large number of top class sportsmen, so tend to be in the news more. There could be just as many controversial sporting characters in Longford but no one gives a shit cos they’re no good.

Don’t hear a huge amount of controversy over Denis Irwin, Jimmy Barry Murphy and Donal Lenihan for instance.

I’m not from Cork by the way but I do think that all this ‘typical Laois man, you wouldn’t see a fella from Offaly going on like that’ stuff is laughable. How does growing up one side of a boundary invented by the British way back when make you different from a fella the far side of that boundary.[/quote]

Large population eh?

So why don’t you see strikes, and players refusing to play for their country, happening to sports people from Dublin?

It may well be an unfair generalisation but no more unfair as your grouping of council estates people having chips on their shoulder. You can’t on the one hand argue against me grouping Cork people together and contradict yourself but referring to council estate people having chips on their shoulder on the other hand.

250

[quote=“farmerinthecity”]Large population eh?

So why don’t you see strikes, and players refusing to play for their country, happening to sports people from Dublin?

It may well be an unfair generalisation but no more unfair as your grouping of council estates people having chips on their shoulder. You can’t on the one hand argue against me grouping Cork people together and contradict yourself but referring to council estate people having chips on their shoulder on the other hand.[/quote]

Fair point.
But at the same time you can’t argue against the observation that all people who live in council estates have chips on their shoulder while at the same time making broad generalisations about all Cork people/sportspeople, surely a far more disparate bunch together. You can’t have your cake and eat it.
I’d say we were both wrong. agree?

251

Go on then!

252

[quote=“gola”]Fair point.
But at the same time you can’t argue against the observation that all people who live in council estates have chips on their shoulder while at the same time making broad generalisations about all Cork people/sportspeople, surely a far more disparate bunch together.[/quote]

Thats not really true is it? Cork, or Corkness, or whatever you want to call it is a highly prominent collective identity with its own values, norms, behaviours etc. Therefore assumptions of behaviour of people sharing that collective identity are significantly more valid and more likely to be accurate with respect to issues impacting on that identity than a class based demographic analysis. In my opinion anyway.

253

I’d actually say the opposite, if anything. In laymans terms you’re more likely to find the same attitudes, dress sense, occupations, political views etc etc among a random selection of 1000 fellas who grew up on council estates than 1000 random corkmen.

Anyway, myself and farmer both agreed we were wrong so fuck off!

254

[quote=“farmerinthecity”]Large population eh?

So why don’t you see strikes, and players refusing to play for their country, happening to sports people from Dublin?

It may well be an unfair generalisation but no more unfair as your grouping of council estates people having chips on their shoulder. You can’t on the one hand argue against me grouping Cork people together and contradict yourself but referring to council estate people having chips on their shoulder on the other hand.[/quote]

far be it from me to contradict a brilliant mind like yours Farmur, but wouldn’t the different measures of indigenous population have something to do with it?

Like in Cork the indigenous population when I lived there was easily 95% Langer and 3% Dagenham Yank, 1% Foreign Students and 1% Foreigners (chinese chip shop owners, ships crews & their leftovers)

In Dublin now, its maybe 35% Molly Malone, 39% Muldoonicans, 18% Eurovision voters, 5% Assylum Seekers,2% Asian and 1% traveller.

Maybe Dr Gola, who btw has probably collated enough cases here to complete a 50 date lecture tour, can talk about this.

You see I’ve always felt that its no accident that Langers are naturally gifted, talented perfectionists and showboating glamour seekers. I think its in our DNA.

255

[quote=“gola”]I’d actually say the opposite, if anything. In laymans terms you’re more likely to find the same attitudes, dress sense, occupations, political views etc etc among a random selection of 1000 fellas who grew up on council estates than 1000 random corkmen.

Anyway, myself and farmer both agreed we were wrong so fuck off![/quote]

Well maybe you’re talkin sociology so, not psychology, unless you did your psychology training in Quacky duck university.

256

[quote=“gola”]I’d actually say the opposite, if anything. In laymans terms you’re more likely to find the same attitudes, dress sense, occupations, political views etc etc among a random selection of 1000 fellas who grew up on council estates than 1000 random corkmen.

Anyway, myself and farmer both agreed we were wrong so fuck off![/quote]

Your dead right Gola.

All this talk about Corkness is some bullshit. Cork is a massive county, fellas from Youghal and Castletownbere would definitely display traits more common to Waterford and Kerry respectively than they would have traits common to each other.

257

ever since the carkies rebelled in favour of the pretender of the english throne they have been cunts-

258

I didn’t, but i certainly believe too much is wrong. Basically i think everybody needs to work together, be open and honest and everybody do the job they are suppose to do. I may not have made that clear in past posts, but i thought it would be fairly obvious, especially with the examples i agve of how it works, as in KK for instance, probably been the most talked about.

I can’t see anything wrong with a group of adults sitting down in October, November and discussing the year gone, and the year coming. This could involve player reps, management (if they are already due to stay on), county board, maybe outside independant ex-players or something. But something that everyone agrees on.

People say players play, administrators administrate and managers manage. And from January on that should certainly be the way, if everyone wants the same results. Thats what generally happens in our club, certainly for football. Its not perfect all the time by a long shot, and has got sticky in hurling from time to time. One of ye brought up the question “What if this happened in your club…” Thats why i used that. Also Pikeman refused to answer a question which may have looked like he would have in someway understood where the playes were coming from. He wasn’t interested in balance, or debate, and just tarred all Cork hurlers and people, with the same brush. Now that is idiotic, and no amount of helping out from his felow countymen will change my mind on that. I also await Bandages response to my answers to his questions. I’m not quite sure what he wanted me to say, my answers would have been clear in post after post after thread on this ridiculous situation Cork GAA is in.

But with Cork administrators don’t just admin. They are involved in team afairs all the time. They don’t want to have everyones opinion, they don’t respect the players. Ger Mac has made an absolute arse of himself. As has been said here and elsewhere, Ritchie Connor had the sense that the players didn’t want him. The Cork players had all but told Ger the same. I wouldn’t want to be where i wasn’t wanted.

Frank Murphy isn’t the only guy in there like this, he has a few cronies as well, so its not completely a one man show. But he is the leader, and he is a shrewed one.

Look i’m not going on about it anymore, people like Cork bashing, they also think they are winding me up, but i have heard it all. Gola has given a few good points there about reality.

I didn’t know the full story about the Wexford situation as it turns out, Bandage set me straight. To me though there was still player involvement, and as it turns out, it was in a good way, the way i would expect. Now maybe Myler wasn’t treated properly afterwards, of that i’m not sure, he certainly seemed to be hurt, but from choosing a manager etc the Wexford CB seem to have got it right.

259

I never refused to answer any of your questions

260

Ok, answer this.
If the chairman in Wexford had not listened to the players, and had forced John Myler through last winter, would you have thought that was alright? Would you think the players should kick up a stink? Or do you think they should just get on with it and take it that the CB knows best? And, with knowing the players were not happy, would you support John Myler if he took the job, knowing all this.

Its pretty simple. You can put in another county name in there, it could happen anywhere. Most counties deal with it correctly, including Wexford. I just want to know how you actually feel about the initial issues, taking away Donal Og, Sean Og and all the other power and money hungry monsters that you have no time for.