[QUOTE=“TheUlteriorMotive, post: 1066877, member: 2272”]the lifestyle that needs two wages to support it is in vogue is the point
in the 80s families didn’t have two cars, foreign holidays, everything new. Times have changed and people’s expectations have changed as to what they expect. Part of that comes from getting married later and the shock of the cost of kids is huge compared to a single lifestyle. Most parents will send kid to crèche to afford that lifestyle if they can’t afford it on one income. Not a judgment either way but it is a financial decision based on wants rather than needs in most cases.[/QUOTE]
I think in further I’m just going to PM you my important messages and posts. You can throw them up. Most of them have blurry eyes when reading something “caoimhaoin” wrote. It’s hilarious.
The amount of lads on here who end up agreeing with 80-90% of what I say is very funny. They go ballistic about the 10%.
[QUOTE=“caoimhaoin, post: 1066878, member: 273”]Have you lived in Ireland in the last 25 years?
You may not be a complete idiot, but there are many of them out there. I realize it’s an alien concept to most intelligent males, but to say it doesn’t exist is just ignorance.
We live in the “look at me world”, and you can’t be seen to be behind.[/QUOTE]
So it’s gone from being a widespread practice to “it does exist”
[QUOTE=“caoimhaoin, post: 1066883, member: 273”]You are taking that out if context. Spidey was saying it doesn’t exist.
It’s very widespread.[/QUOTE]
I haven’t seen it where paying creche fees is being done as it’s an ‘in thing’. Have plenty of mates with kids and in nearly all cases the mother has stated if she had the choice she would stay home with the child.
[QUOTE=“TheUlteriorMotive, post: 1066877, member: 2272”]the lifestyle that needs two wages to support it is in vogue is the point
in the 80s families didn’t have two cars, foreign holidays, everything new. Times have changed and people’s expectations have changed as to what they expect. Part of that comes from getting married later and the shock of the cost of kids is huge compared to a single lifestyle. Most parents will send kid to crèche to afford that lifestyle if they can’t afford it on one income. Not a judgment either way but it is a financial decision based on wants rather than needs in most cases.
If people can afford the lifestyle through one income then a parent not working becomes a no brainer for most.
One interesting thing from my own business is that the generation of women who are about 50 now are the first and only generation of women who went at careers at expense of family and outsourced raising families completely. Almost all women in what I do will now step back (and some will quit if the conditions above apply) from career when they have kids so they are home at 5.30/6.00.[/QUOTE]
It’s a complete over-simplification to describe it as a lifestyle choice.
There’s an awful lot of misty eyed nostalgia when talking about the 80s. It’s not just about foreign holidays, it’s about having money to feed families properly, live in better conditions, have central heating on a bit more frequently, let children play sports etc.
And nobody has yet commented on the fact that it’s perfectly reasonable to want to work and it’s also perfectly reasonable for both parents and children to spend some time apart from one another. The concept of a career doesn’t have to mean ridiculous hours and imbalanced priorities. But automatically expecting one person in a marriage to surrender their ambitions and resign from the workplace is unfair and unrealistic. I’d expect to have over half my life to live - I’m not just stopping that because I have a child. We’d get some fucked up, cossetted children if every parent made every decision based solely on spending more time at home.
[QUOTE=“Rocko, post: 1066906, member: 1”]It’s a complete over-simplification to describe it as a lifestyle choice.
There’s an awful lot of misty eyed nostalgia when talking about the 80s. It’s not just about foreign holidays, it’s about having money to feed families properly, live in better conditions, have central heating on a bit more frequently, let children play sports etc.
And nobody has yet commented on the fact that it’s perfectly reasonable to want to work and it’s also perfectly reasonable for both parents and children to spend some time apart from one another. The concept of a career doesn’t have to mean ridiculous hours and imbalanced priorities. But automatically expecting one person in a marriage to surrender their ambitions and resign from the workplace is unfair and unrealistic. I’d expect to have over half my life to live - I’m not just stopping that because I have a child. We’d get some fucked up, cossetted children if every parent made every decision based solely on spending more time at home.[/QUOTE]
They are good points, but are all the people who grew up in other generations cosseted children because they grew up with a parent at home?
And it’s not about the person who goes home every evening at 5 and has a balance, which maybe you have. It’s about the people who hand over responsibility of raising their kids to a large degree paying thru the nose for it and being too bollixed to enjoy their own time or that with the kids. That then allied to them wanting to “trade up” while often not realizing what’s straight in front of them is perfectly good. If people bothered reading the first few posts it would be pretty clear what I was talking about.
Why does everyone on here take a commentary on things seen in Ireland as a personal insult and jump to defend the way they are doing it?
[QUOTE=“Rocko, post: 1066906, member: 1”]It’s a complete over-simplification to describe it as a lifestyle choice.
There’s an awful lot of misty eyed nostalgia when talking about the 80s. It’s not just about foreign holidays, it’s about having money to feed families properly, live in better conditions, have central heating on a bit more frequently, let children play sports etc.
And nobody has yet commented on the fact that it’s perfectly reasonable to want to work and it’s also perfectly reasonable for both parents and children to spend some time apart from one another. The concept of a career doesn’t have to mean ridiculous hours and imbalanced priorities. But automatically expecting one person in a marriage to surrender their ambitions and resign from the workplace is unfair and unrealistic. I’d expect to have over half my life to live - I’m not just stopping that because I have a child. We’d get some fucked up, cossetted children if every parent made every decision based solely on spending more time at home.[/QUOTE]
Over half your life? With your lifestyle? You’d want to get the yoga mat out, mate.
[QUOTE=“caoimhaoin, post: 1066917, member: 273”]
Why does everyone on here take a commentary on things seen in Ireland as a personal insult and jump to defend the way they are doing it?[/QUOTE]
Because people don’t like being moralised by an arrogant spoofer. I would conclude that it is that simple.
I will be introducing a buddy system when they sign up. I have shortlisted @The Selfish Giant[/USER], [USER=706]@Fagan ODowd[/USER] and [USER=2269]@Tess Tickle for the roles.
[QUOTE=“caoimhaoin, post: 1066917, member: 273”]They are good points, but are all the people who grew up in other generations cosseted children because they grew up with a parent at home?
And it’s not about the person who goes home every evening at 5 and has a balance, which maybe you have. It’s about the people who hand over responsibility of raising their kids to a large degree paying thru the nose for it and being too bollixed to enjoy their own time or that with the kids. That then allied to them wanting to “trade up” while often not realizing what’s straight in front of them is perfectly good. If people bothered reading the first few posts it would be pretty clear what I was talking about.
Why does everyone on here take a commentary on things seen in Ireland as a personal insult and jump to defend the way they are doing it?[/QUOTE]
I’d say mainly because most people dont agree with your commentary. I personally know no one who wants to “trade up”, and thats across the board. Most people arent living beyond their means, they are doing whatever they can just to keep going and be able to be there for their family. There are people I know who have not been on holidays for years, but still both have to work. There is a lot more cost of living these days. Some circumstances mean that both parents have to work, and that they have to have 2 cars. I’m sure if people could, they’d only have one working parent.
And whilst I think its admirable that you think it is very simple to do this, reality is very different, and things like that annoy people, especially when you are commenting on something that you dont currently experience and the vast majority of people in Ireland with kids have both parents working, so there is a high chance you are making judgements on a vast majority of people on here with kids.
Your first comment on this was to say that one parent should not work, and what’s wrong with people, straight away insinuating that families with both parents working are neglecting their kids for the sake of money and wanting a lavish lifestyle. If you can make it out how its so simple to raise a family and be able to provide for their future on one income, in a period where salaries have been greatly reduced, still in the middle of a recession and taxes are at their highest in years, then it would be great.
You are starting to change your tone on it, but you didnt start off that way, which is why people went after your “10%”
You don’t have any experience of being a parent or raising kids yet have no problem casting conclusions and making judgements on those who are parents and the way in which they raise kids. You then proceed to moralise these people and fling out all sorts of zany comments on their motives for what they do.
[QUOTE=“TheUlteriorMotive, post: 1066877, member: 2272”]the lifestyle that needs two wages to support it is in vogue is the point
in the 80s families didn’t have two cars, foreign holidays, everything new. Times have changed and people’s expectations have changed as to what they expect. Part of that comes from getting married later and the shock of the cost of kids is huge compared to a single lifestyle. Most parents will send kid to crèche to afford that lifestyle if they can’t afford it on one income. Not a judgment either way but it is a financial decision based on wants rather than needs in most cases.
If people can afford the lifestyle through one income then a parent not working becomes a no brainer for most.
One interesting thing from my own business is that the generation of women who are about 50 now are the first and only generation of women who went at careers at expense of family and outsourced raising families completely. Almost all women in what I do will now step back (and some will quit if the conditions above apply) from career when they have kids so they are home at 5.30/6.00.[/QUOTE]
It’s not necessarily that simple. Some women return to work because they want to, not for the money, and because it is what they do, and part of who they are. The kids don’t seem to suffer unduly in the city at least, as life in a crèche is not that different to the cafe and car culture they would otherwise experience. Ours were reared in nursery. It’s just a thing. At present, I don’t feel any regret or guilt, though we have, now they are at school, modified our existence so that we can walk the little one to school three mornings a week.
It was the generation before ours that made our world of two income property prices. We just have to live here, and its not going to change any time soon. If you look at things flying up again in Ireland, it will only get worse.
Seeing two parents going out to work each day as a normal thing is a good thing I think. We live in a hard world, and I want both of mine to work well and be independent.
[QUOTE=“Gman, post: 1066936, member: 112”]I’d say mainly because most people dont agree with your commentary. I personally know no one who wants to “trade up”, and thats across the board. Most people arent living beyond their means, they are doing whatever they can just to keep going and be able to be there for their family. There are people I know who have not been on holidays for years, but still both have to work. There is a lot more cost of living these days. Some circumstances mean that both parents have to work, and that they have to have 2 cars. I’m sure if people could, they’d only have one working parent.
And whilst I think its admirable that you think it is very simple to do this, reality is very different, and things like that annoy people, especially when you are commenting on something that you dont currently experience and the vast majority of people in Ireland with kids have both parents working, so there is a high chance you are making judgements on a vast majority of people on here with kids.
Your first comment on this was to say that one parent should not work, and what’s wrong with people, straight away insinuating that families with both parents working are neglecting their kids for the sake of money and wanting a lavish lifestyle. If you can make it out how its so simple to raise a family and be able to provide for their future on one income, in a period where salaries have been greatly reduced, still in the middle of a recession and taxes are at their highest in years, then it would be great.
You are starting to change your tone on it, but you didnt start off that way, which is why people went after your “10%”[/QUOTE]
yet Gman still votes for the centre right parties that created this mess