Hillsborough

Sport
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[QUOTE=“Kid Chocolate, post: 931727, member: 553”]They are a shower of cunts. Peter Beardsley was on the other night saying how he remembers hitting the bar and that if it had gone in he’d have felt responsible for more deaths. Shure don’t worry about all the lads who burst through barriers and ignored and pushed aside stewards. They’ll keep at this shit shit until they force some anonymous apology from someplace., some innocent people died because an uncontrollable mob of hooligans in the full throes of a follow the mob mentality had their fun.
Full stop[/QUOTE]
The Hillsborough Panel found the safety of fans admitted to the terrace at the Leppings Lane end of the ground was “compromised at every level”. From the condition of the turnstiles to the management of the crowd, alterations to the terrace, the construction of the “pens” in which fans were held, the placement of the crush barriers and the access to the fateful central pens via a tunnel with a one in six gradient. The deficiencies were “well known” and made the crush on 15 April 1989 foreseeable

The management roles and responsibilites of the police were unclear and the prevailing mindset “prioritised crowd control over crowd safety”. Duckenfield acceded to a request for exit gate C to be opened to relieve pressure outside the ground but failed to anticipate the impact on the already-packed central pen of fans descending the tunnel directly opposite. There was no instruction given to manage the flow or direction of the incoming crowd. “From the documents provided to the panel it is clear the crush at the Leppings Lane turnstiles outside the stadium was not caused by fans arriving ‘late’ for the kick off,” it concluded

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Many millions went through those turnstiles safely before the Liverpool crowd showed up.

83

Police actions causes it - if any crowd is not controlled then it gets dangerous

Ever see the police helicopter over Croke Park after a match - it uses thermal imaging searching for blockages in crowd movement. In any crowd at any event you are in the hands of the authorities and if they make a bad decision then it gets dangerous very quickly

Hillsborough had a number of near misses back as far as 1957

[I]Talk to any stadium controller and they crave a steady flow of arrivals, not a sudden wave of humanity rolling towards them as the teams walk out. This happened in 1989 and certain craven police officers made appalling, unthinking decisions which ultimately cost the lives of 96 [U]Liverpool[/U] followers.

The same scenario was unfolding in 1957 but calmer, more fan-savvy officers made the correct call. Such judgements by the match-day authorities can mean the difference between a small crush and the slaughter of the innocents.
Back to John and Colin. Echoing the match-day rituals of millions before and since, their plan had been for a quick pint before the 3pm kick-off. Unfortunately, their [U]United[/U] fans’ bus, struggling through the traffic, did not reach Hillsborough until 2.50, forcing the driver to offload hurriedly his human cargo outside the Leppings Lane turnstiles.
These were the days of no segregation. The post-war generation of fans mixed together, happy simply to be able to attend a match after such conflict. John’s ticket was on the Kop, joining in with many of the Birmingham throng, so he took off at a pace towards the far end of Hillsborough, running down that slight slope, shouting back to Colin: “See you after the game.’’ Sooner than that.

Colin had tried to get in the Leppings Lane but the police barred the way, saying it was full, even though he had a ticket. So Colin took off after John, rushing towards the Kop to make kick-off. Stewards let the breathless pair in, even though that end was heaving too. They managed to squeeze in, swelling the crowd to 65,107.
Settled amongst the swaying mass, Colin and John looked down the pitch, past the familiar figures of Bobby Charlton and Duncan Edwards, towards the Leppings Lane, noting the uneven distribution of fans that was to prove so catastrophic in 1989.
“The central pens were jam-packed but the end pens appeared only sparsely occupied,’’ John recalled yesterday. “Colin felt he should have been allowed in but clearly there were no stewards ensuring the terrace was evenly covered. People entering the turnstiles at that end were faced with a tunnel straight ahead and they went straight down it.’’
The tunnel of death that claimed so many Liverpool fans in 1989 was already threatening supporters 32 years earlier. Observers talk, eloquently and understandably, of the problems that scarred
the 1981 Hillsborough semi between Wolves and Spurs but the roots of the 1989 carnage stretch even deeper into the soil of the English footballing landscape.

The Hillsborough near-miss of 1957 was scandalously overlooked by the authorities.
John and Colin had friends back in the Leppings Lane who told them later of their painful experience.
“They said that by the time they reached the terraces and realised they were packed solid already they could not escape back down the tunnel as more people poured in,’’ added John. “They could see the ‘wing pens’ were a better bet but could not get through.’’
Hillsborough’s unsuitability made the FA’s willingness to use it as a semi-final venue, even without a safety licence, even more shocking.
United fans were caught in the tunnel, unable to move, rescued from a more dangerous crush by the police decision to direct latecomers like Colin away.
“Police action to stop more people entering the ground at that end was commendable,’’ continued John, “even though they merely transferred the problem to the Kop, which however was a vast open terrace with no in-built problems.
"The main difference in my opinion between 1957 and the tragedy was the 1957 police stopped fans coming in. In 1989, they let thousands in.’’
A trawl through the British Pathe News archive yesterday revealed alarming footage from 1957. “By half-time the excitement is too much for some fans,’’ intoned the clipped-vowelled commentator, describing stricken supporters being tended to by the side of the pitch. This was 32 years before the Hillsborough disaster.
It beggars belief that the experience of 1957, let alone 1981, was not learned by South Yorkshire Police.
Be aware of traffic problems. Order the referee to delay kick-off. Tell radio
stations to relay information. Get stewards to ensure fans spread out from the central areas into the more open terraces out wide.
And do not open the gates if there’s a late rush. Contain the situation outside or accommodate fans in other stands.
Above, all, be aware of the perilous configuration of the Leppings Lane End. Just ask fans.[/I]

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[QUOTE=“Mark Renton, post: 931734, member: 1796”]It’s funny how the same thing had happened a few times already but a crush was just about avoided… fucking hooligans

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jtzHVe2mEN0

Exactly , if you have such a situation and prolog
I remember I was below in the Pairc for Limerick v Waterford 2001, they made such a balls of letting people in, the game had started and people were still outside, so they ushered everyone into the one end regardless of where their tickets were for… They eventually had to open the gates and let supporters onto the pitch such was the crush but for a good 5 minutes you could see people were in trouble with panic on their faces… Fuck them hooligans!![/QUOTE]
Exactly to my point , if people act in each others interests and cooperate in such circumstances there’s no need or nothing inevitable re injuries/deaths. That wasn’t the case in Sheffield unfortunately

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:eek:

Sure no wonder so, the capacity was less than 100k.

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nonsense - a crowd does not have a single brain acting as one where people at back know what is happening ahead - you need crowd control measures whenever you direct a crowd into a confined space

think about brake lights on cars - if all the brake lights don’t work then you get pile ups very quickly because information is not available to the individual driver but that information should be available to the police who then act accordingly

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[QUOTE=“TheUlteriorMotive, post: 931754, member: 2272”]nonsense - a crowd does not have a single brain acting as one where people at back know what is happening ahead - you need crowd control measures whenever you direct a crowd into a confined space

think about brake lights on cars - if all the brake lights don’t work then you get pile ups very quickly because information is not available to the individual driver but that information should be available to the police who then act accordingly[/QUOTE]
An individual does have a sense of what’s going on, that’s ridiculous. You might not be able to divert your trajectory but at least when your sober and you have a ticket allocated there is a measure of control . Here you had thousands leaving the pubs late pissed with no tickets all with one goal …sorry you can’t give total absolution here. Some self regulation and introspection is what was required

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Go watch the video NCC put up you numpty.

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I know well-

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Of course, bro-more for TUM’s benefit.

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Staying in the boozer until kick off a then charging at an entrance tunnel ticketless ? Who’s rules were those, of course it was the decent folks who took their places and arrived on time that suffered the consequences of the pints for the mob. You never walk alone my hole.

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All this ‘never forget’ shit is annoying. Most Irish people don’t go to matches anyway so they should be safe enough.

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Never forget this , if thousands of fans get pissed and charge a stadium late , nearing kick off with no tickets people will get hurt …

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Norwegian State TV is showing the Hillsborough memorial service live in its entirety

96

I was at the 2007 Champions league Final in Athens (AC Meelan v Liverpool), with 2 Liverpool friends of mine. Liverpool fans took over the main square in Athens the night before and the craic was mighty (even for a “neutral”), however as the beer flowed and the night wore on things got nasty. A fella, rightfully or wrongfully, was beaten very badly for trying to sell a ticket. The poor guy who bought the ticket was set upon by dozens of people and his ticket and money were taken. There were so many Fans (in their thousands) without tickets there that would do anything, and I mean anything, to get their hands on a ticket the place just became so unsafe.

The next day we made the trip up the stadium and there was a high police presence and the set up seemed fairly good. The walk from around the stadium to get to where we needed to go was most unpleasant. We were accosted several times by large groups asking us if we had tickets. Obviously we replied that we were looking ourselves but there were times that we felt extremely intimidated so we decided to get into the ground as soon as possible.

Just outside the first entrance there must have been at least two thousand fans gathered outside the stalls, who obviously had no tickets, that we had to walk through. There was a man and his son in tears shouting he had been pick-pocketed, we kept walking. It was very unpleasant walking through the throngs, but we got to the gates and got in. This 4 hours before kick off.

We were now in the outer ring, there was another gate to get through right at the stadium, but we stayed outside where Liverpool fans and Milan fans mingled and enjoyed the entertainment provided. No threat, everyone happy. about 45 mins before kick off we went to the second gates, presented our tickets and went in. Just as we did we heard this roar from behind us. It was so loud as if a goal had been scored. Then from a distance we saw a mad rush of a few hundred people like they were in a mad stampede. The police closed the gates in front of us, we were thankful we were inside. Despite this the fans kept rushing right up to the gates and began pushing the people in the queues up again the fence. One thing that will never leave my mind was the sight of a man in wheelchair being crushed up against the fencing and slowly the wheelchair being smashed into smidderins. People tried to climb the fence and others inside pleaded with them to back off. Some fans scaled people and got over the fencing and the crush became so bad that people started passing out. Eventually and thankfully, the police opened the gates and people flooded in. The two Liverpool fans I was with were disgusted at what they had witnessed, and more so as groups back-slapped each other for getting in without tickets.

We found out later that they rushed the first gate and the Athens police had to let them in and so they employed the same tactic in rushing the second gate in what we had seen. The police reinforced the first gate and pushed the fans back but then had to take the decision to stop any more fans going in, whether they had a ticket or not.

We were amazed that this got zero coverage on the TV. We were expecting this to be massive news when we got back home, considering Hillsborough etc. Obviously the people involved here were too young to be in attendance or even watching Hillsborough unfold, but equally obviously they would have known the history but didn’t care about the safety of their fellow fans. Am I drawing a comparison to Hillsborough, maybe by posting it here I am, but I don’t know enough about Hillsborough, but I do know that I had first hand experience of what I saw in Athens - thousands of Liverpool fans without tickets who’d do anything to see the game. The Athens police handled things better and their actions I have no doubt saved lives, The Sheffield police took the easy decision to let everyone in, the Athens police turned away genuine fans with genuine tickets. We left for Berlin on the first flight after the game and were delighted to be out of there. Some craic in Berlin, but that’s a different story.

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[QUOTE=“Scrunchie, post: 931934, member: 1408”]I was at the 2007 Champions league Final in Athens (AC Meelan v Liverpool), with 2 Liverpool friends of mine. Liverpool fans took over the main square in Athens the night before and the craic was mighty (even for a “neutral”), however as the beer flowed and the night wore on things got nasty. A fella, rightfully or wrongfully, was beaten very badly for trying to sell a ticket. The poor guy who bought the ticket was set upon by dozens of people and his ticket and money were taken. There were so many Fans (in their thousands) without tickets there that would do anything, and I mean anything, to get their hands on a ticket the place just became so unsafe.

The next day we made the trip up the stadium and there was a high police presence and the set up seemed fairly good. The walk from around the stadium to get to where we needed to go was most unpleasant. We were accosted several times by large groups asking us if we had tickets. Obviously we replied that we were looking ourselves but there were times that we felt extremely intimidated so we decided to get into the ground as soon as possible.

Just outside the first entrance there must have been at least two thousand fans gathered outside the stalls, who obviously had no tickets, that we had to walk through. There was a man and his son in tears shouting he had been pick-pocketed, we kept walking. It was very unpleasant walking through the throngs, but we got to the gates and got in. This 4 hours before kick off.

We were now in the outer ring, there was another gate to get through right at the stadium, but we stayed outside where Liverpool fans and Milan fans mingled and enjoyed the entertainment provided. No threat, everyone happy. about 45 mins before kick off we went to the second gates, presented our tickets and went in. Just as we did we heard this roar from behind us. It was so loud as if a goal had been scored. Then from a distance we saw a mad rush of a few hundred people like they were in a mad stampede. The police closed the gates in front of us, we were thankful we were inside. Despite this the fans kept rushing right up to the gates and began pushing the people in the queues up again the fence. One thing that will never leave my mind was the sight of a man in wheelchair being crushed up against the fencing and slowly the wheelchair being smashed into smidderins. People tried to climb the fence and others inside pleaded with them to back off. Some fans scaled people and got over the fencing and the crush became so bad that people started passing out. Eventually and thankfully, the police opened the gates and people flooded in. The two Liverpool fans I was with were disgusted at what they had witnessed, and more so as groups back-slapped each other for getting in without tickets.

We found out later that they rushed the first gate and the Athens police had to let them in and so they employed the same tactic in rushing the second gate in what we had seen. The police reinforced the first gate and pushed the fans back but then had to take the decision to stop any more fans going in, whether they had a ticket or not.

We were amazed that this got zero coverage on the TV. We were expecting this to be massive news when we got back home, considering Hillsborough etc. Obviously the people involved here were too young to be in attendance or even watching Hillsborough unfold, but equally obviously they would have known the history but didn’t care about the safety of their fellow fans. Am I drawing a comparison to Hillsborough, maybe by posting it here I am, but I don’t know enough about Hillsborough, but I do know that I had first hand experience of what I saw in Athens - thousands of Liverpool fans without tickets who’d do anything to see the game. The Athens police handled things better and their actions I have no doubt saved lives, The Sheffield police took the easy decision to let everyone in, the Athens police turned away genuine fans with genuine tickets. We left for Berlin on the first flight after the game and were delighted to be out of there. Some craic in Berlin, but that’s a different story.[/QUOTE]

Outstanding post.

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[QUOTE=“Scrunchie, post: 931934, member: 1408”]I was at the 2007 Champions league Final in Athens (AC Meelan v Liverpool), with 2 Liverpool friends of mine. Liverpool fans took over the main square in Athens the night before and the craic was mighty (even for a “neutral”), however as the beer flowed and the night wore on things got nasty. A fella, rightfully or wrongfully, was beaten very badly for trying to sell a ticket. The poor guy who bought the ticket was set upon by dozens of people and his ticket and money were taken. There were so many Fans (in their thousands) without tickets there that would do anything, and I mean anything, to get their hands on a ticket the place just became so unsafe.

The next day we made the trip up the stadium and there was a high police presence and the set up seemed fairly good. The walk from around the stadium to get to where we needed to go was most unpleasant. We were accosted several times by large groups asking us if we had tickets. Obviously we replied that we were looking ourselves but there were times that we felt extremely intimidated so we decided to get into the ground as soon as possible.

Just outside the first entrance there must have been at least two thousand fans gathered outside the stalls, who obviously had no tickets, that we had to walk through. There was a man and his son in tears shouting he had been pick-pocketed, we kept walking. It was very unpleasant walking through the throngs, but we got to the gates and got in. This 4 hours before kick off.

We were now in the outer ring, there was another gate to get through right at the stadium, but we stayed outside where Liverpool fans and Milan fans mingled and enjoyed the entertainment provided. No threat, everyone happy. about 45 mins before kick off we went to the second gates, presented our tickets and went in. Just as we did we heard this roar from behind us. It was so loud as if a goal had been scored. Then from a distance we saw a mad rush of a few hundred people like they were in a mad stampede. The police closed the gates in front of us, we were thankful we were inside. Despite this the fans kept rushing right up to the gates and began pushing the people in the queues up again the fence. One thing that will never leave my mind was the sight of a man in wheelchair being crushed up against the fencing and slowly the wheelchair being smashed into smidderins. People tried to climb the fence and others inside pleaded with them to back off. Some fans scaled people and got over the fencing and the crush became so bad that people started passing out. Eventually and thankfully, the police opened the gates and people flooded in. The two Liverpool fans I was with were disgusted at what they had witnessed, and more so as groups back-slapped each other for getting in without tickets.

We found out later that they rushed the first gate and the Athens police had to let them in and so they employed the same tactic in rushing the second gate in what we had seen. The police reinforced the first gate and pushed the fans back but then had to take the decision to stop any more fans going in, whether they had a ticket or not.

We were amazed that this got zero coverage on the TV. We were expecting this to be massive news when we got back home, considering Hillsborough etc. Obviously the people involved here were too young to be in attendance or even watching Hillsborough unfold, but equally obviously they would have known the history but didn’t care about the safety of their fellow fans. Am I drawing a comparison to Hillsborough, maybe by posting it here I am, but I don’t know enough about Hillsborough, but I do know that I had first hand experience of what I saw in Athens - thousands of Liverpool fans without tickets who’d do anything to see the game. The Athens police handled things better and their actions I have no doubt saved lives, The Sheffield police took the easy decision to let everyone in, the Athens police turned away genuine fans with genuine tickets. We left for Berlin on the first flight after the game and were delighted to be out of there. Some craic in Berlin, but that’s a different story.[/QUOTE]

#ynwa :smiley:

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[QUOTE=“Scrunchie, post: 931934, member: 1408”]I was at the 2007 Champions league Final in Athens (AC Meelan v Liverpool), with 2 Liverpool friends of mine. Liverpool fans took over the main square in Athens the night before and the craic was mighty (even for a “neutral”), however as the beer flowed and the night wore on things got nasty. A fella, rightfully or wrongfully, was beaten very badly for trying to sell a ticket. The poor guy who bought the ticket was set upon by dozens of people and his ticket and money were taken. There were so many Fans (in their thousands) without tickets there that would do anything, and I mean anything, to get their hands on a ticket the place just became so unsafe.

The next day we made the trip up the stadium and there was a high police presence and the set up seemed fairly good. The walk from around the stadium to get to where we needed to go was most unpleasant. We were accosted several times by large groups asking us if we had tickets. Obviously we replied that we were looking ourselves but there were times that we felt extremely intimidated so we decided to get into the ground as soon as possible.

Just outside the first entrance there must have been at least two thousand fans gathered outside the stalls, who obviously had no tickets, that we had to walk through. There was a man and his son in tears shouting he had been pick-pocketed, we kept walking. It was very unpleasant walking through the throngs, but we got to the gates and got in. This 4 hours before kick off.

We were now in the outer ring, there was another gate to get through right at the stadium, but we stayed outside where Liverpool fans and Milan fans mingled and enjoyed the entertainment provided. No threat, everyone happy. about 45 mins before kick off we went to the second gates, presented our tickets and went in. Just as we did we heard this roar from behind us. It was so loud as if a goal had been scored. Then from a distance we saw a mad rush of a few hundred people like they were in a mad stampede. The police closed the gates in front of us, we were thankful we were inside. Despite this the fans kept rushing right up to the gates and began pushing the people in the queues up again the fence. One thing that will never leave my mind was the sight of a man in wheelchair being crushed up against the fencing and slowly the wheelchair being smashed into smidderins. People tried to climb the fence and others inside pleaded with them to back off. Some fans scaled people and got over the fencing and the crush became so bad that people started passing out. Eventually and thankfully, the police opened the gates and people flooded in. The two Liverpool fans I was with were disgusted at what they had witnessed, and more so as groups back-slapped each other for getting in without tickets.

We found out later that they rushed the first gate and the Athens police had to let them in and so they employed the same tactic in rushing the second gate in what we had seen. The police reinforced the first gate and pushed the fans back but then had to take the decision to stop any more fans going in, whether they had a ticket or not.

We were amazed that this got zero coverage on the TV. We were expecting this to be massive news when we got back home, considering Hillsborough etc. Obviously the people involved here were too young to be in attendance or even watching Hillsborough unfold, but equally obviously they would have known the history but didn’t care about the safety of their fellow fans. Am I drawing a comparison to Hillsborough, maybe by posting it here I am, but I don’t know enough about Hillsborough, but I do know that I had first hand experience of what I saw in Athens - thousands of Liverpool fans without tickets who’d do anything to see the game. The Athens police handled things better and their actions I have no doubt saved lives, The Sheffield police took the easy decision to let everyone in, the Athens police turned away genuine fans with genuine tickets. We left for Berlin on the first flight after the game and were delighted to be out of there. Some craic in Berlin, but that’s a different story.[/QUOTE]

Were there any turnstiles at the ground in Athens - I read previously there were none

Crowds need to be controlled. Watch what happens if traffic lights stop working. People behave selfishly.

I was outside a Celtic match in Camp Nou - all Celtic fans were shepherded towards a single entrance gate even though there are probably a 100 gates. it got backed up very quickly and got heated. Police wearing balaclavas closed the visors on their helmets and I took that as a sign to get out and try another route in which we managed to do

Fans try it on even United fans

Manchester United have emphasised that fans without tickets should not travel to Moscow for next Wednesday’s Champions League final, after hundreds of the club’s supporters ignored similar advice not to turn up at Wigan on Sunday without a pre-booked seat. Shortly after the final whistle at the JJB Stadium, United fans inside the ground unlocked the emergency exits, thereby allowing up to 300 ticketless supporters congregated outside into the stadium to watch Sir Alex Ferguson’s side being presented with the Premier League trophy.

100

[QUOTE=“Scrunchie, post: 931934, member: 1408”]I was at the 2007 Champions league Final in Athens (AC Meelan v Liverpool), with 2 Liverpool friends of mine. Liverpool fans took over the main square in Athens the night before and the craic was mighty (even for a “neutral”), however as the beer flowed and the night wore on things got nasty. A fella, rightfully or wrongfully, was beaten very badly for trying to sell a ticket. The poor guy who bought the ticket was set upon by dozens of people and his ticket and money were taken. There were so many Fans (in their thousands) without tickets there that would do anything, and I mean anything, to get their hands on a ticket the place just became so unsafe.

The next day we made the trip up the stadium and there was a high police presence and the set up seemed fairly good. The walk from around the stadium to get to where we needed to go was most unpleasant. We were accosted several times by large groups asking us if we had tickets. Obviously we replied that we were looking ourselves but there were times that we felt extremely intimidated so we decided to get into the ground as soon as possible.

Just outside the first entrance there must have been at least two thousand fans gathered outside the stalls, who obviously had no tickets, that we had to walk through. There was a man and his son in tears shouting he had been pick-pocketed, we kept walking. It was very unpleasant walking through the throngs, but we got to the gates and got in. This 4 hours before kick off.

We were now in the outer ring, there was another gate to get through right at the stadium, but we stayed outside where Liverpool fans and Milan fans mingled and enjoyed the entertainment provided. No threat, everyone happy. about 45 mins before kick off we went to the second gates, presented our tickets and went in. Just as we did we heard this roar from behind us. It was so loud as if a goal had been scored. Then from a distance we saw a mad rush of a few hundred people like they were in a mad stampede. The police closed the gates in front of us, we were thankful we were inside. Despite this the fans kept rushing right up to the gates and began pushing the people in the queues up again the fence. One thing that will never leave my mind was the sight of a man in wheelchair being crushed up against the fencing and slowly the wheelchair being smashed into smidderins. People tried to climb the fence and others inside pleaded with them to back off. Some fans scaled people and got over the fencing and the crush became so bad that people started passing out. Eventually and thankfully, the police opened the gates and people flooded in. The two Liverpool fans I was with were disgusted at what they had witnessed, and more so as groups back-slapped each other for getting in without tickets.

We found out later that they rushed the first gate and the Athens police had to let them in and so they employed the same tactic in rushing the second gate in what we had seen. The police reinforced the first gate and pushed the fans back but then had to take the decision to stop any more fans going in, whether they had a ticket or not.

We were amazed that this got zero coverage on the TV. We were expecting this to be massive news when we got back home, considering Hillsborough etc. Obviously the people involved here were too young to be in attendance or even watching Hillsborough unfold, but equally obviously they would have known the history but didn’t care about the safety of their fellow fans. Am I drawing a comparison to Hillsborough, maybe by posting it here I am, but I don’t know enough about Hillsborough, but I do know that I had first hand experience of what I saw in Athens - thousands of Liverpool fans without tickets who’d do anything to see the game. The Athens police handled things better and their actions I have no doubt saved lives, The Sheffield police took the easy decision to let everyone in, the Athens police turned away genuine fans with genuine tickets. We left for Berlin on the first flight after the game and were delighted to be out of there. Some craic in Berlin, but that’s a different story.[/QUOTE]

Outstanding post.