He ha been coached though, the thing seems to be is he listens and is able to transfer to the field. His progress may seem quick to outsiders but in reality it been happening over 3-4 years pretty gradually. His physical attributes have also improved.
Lehane is someone who is believe to have been very hard to teach and was playing completely on his often. But he too is now playing a team game. I really think something changed in him last August/September. Itâs like he realised how good he is and that if he played a team game he was even better. Players who dominate underage often lose trust in team mates and this can catch them out at high levels.
In Horgan, Harnedy and Lehane Cork have 3 of te best and most physical forwards around. Itâs very exciting.
How did Cahalane get on? Sounded like he was getting the run around but got to grips. Fair commentary?
They didnât really play anyone new there so it may not be the priority. They blooded new backs in a reasonable standard game and gave a 2 Cadogans and Walsh some gametime.
That would mean a far stronger panel than last year at this time.
However I have a feeling the dual thing is dead already. Both Walsh and Cadogan have cried off games and they have both got injured in games. I think the sensible thing is to pull the plug, itâs actually affecting both teams negatively in my opinion.
Youâve made a claim the panel is stronger without really backing it up as neither players replace Corks best defender (B Murphy)who has retired.
Their problems are at primarily the back 5-41 in 2 AI finals tells you all you need to knowâŚbut maybe thatâs not a priority either
[QUOTE=âcaoimhaoin, post: 924365, member: 273â]They didnât really play anyone new there so it may not be the priority. They blooded new backs in a reasonable standard game and gave a 2 Cadogans and Walsh some gametime.
That would mean a far stronger panel than last year at this time.
However I have a feeling the dual thing is dead already. Both Walsh and Cadogan have cried off games and they have both got injured in games. I think the sensible thing is to pull the plug, itâs actually affecting both teams negatively in my opinion.[/QUOTE]
Basically we need a half-back line. We havenât made any inroads in this area at all.
With Harnedy, Lehane, Horgan Cork have three of the best forwards in the game who can win their own ball and take scores.
I donât think the personnel in defence is the issue as much as the system - Cork could put seven at the back (McDonnell as a sweeper as he has the pace) and play with five up front
There were signs yesterday of Cork playing a possession game when Tipperary played two on Harnedy and that allowed Kearney time to shoot but he hit a couple wide.
The other funny thing about Cork is everybody says they canât or donât score goals but yesterday and in the two AI finals when they had to score goals and went looking for them the goals were there. You would like them to play with that freedom or ruthlessness that Kilkenny have where they go for the jugular. Cork only seem to do that when they are chasing what looks like a lost cause
[QUOTE=âTheUlteriorMotive, post: 924431, member: 2272â]With Harnedy, Lehane, Horgan Cork have three of the best forwards in the game who can win their own ball and take scores.
I donât think the personnel in defence is the issue as much as the system - Cork could put seven at the back (McDonnell as a sweeper as he has the pace) and play with five up front
There were signs yesterday of Cork playing a possession game when Tipperary played two on Harnedy and that allowed Kearney time to shoot but he hit a couple wide.
The other funny thing about Cork is everybody says they canât or donât score goals but yesterday and in the two AI finals when they had to score goals and went looking for them the goals were there. You would like them to play with that freedom or ruthlessness that Kilkenny have where they go for the jugular. Cork only seem to do that when they are chasing what looks like a lost cause[/QUOTE]
Would strongly disagree, Egan not up to standard, Joyce has a lot to prove,.Murphy now gone, problem with putting 7 behind the balls is it tends to congest that area of the field, Egan and Joyce are exceptionally poor strikers (inter county standard) and when in space they can use their pace to break out and make deliveriesâ but in a sweeper approach that space is harder to find. I think their inability to deliver a platform from HB is their major weakness. ONeill is also a make shift FB but with a stronger bulwark in front of him youâd get away with it. McDonnell also an average ball striker which is not what you need in that sweeper role
They have huge potential up front, but against say KK or maybe even Tipp theyâll always concede too much
[QUOTE=âKid Chocolate, post: 924437, member: 553â]Would strongly disagree, Egan not up to standard, Joyce has a lot to prove,.Murphy now gone, problem with putting 7 behind the balls is it tends to congest that area of the field, Egan and Joyce are exceptionally poor strikers (inter county standard) and when in space they can use their pace to break out and make deliveriesâ but in a sweeper approach that space is harder to find. I think their inability to deliver a platform from HB is their major weakness. ONeill is also a make shift FB but with a stronger bulwark in front of him youâd get away with it. McDonnell also an average ball striker which is not what you need in that sweeper role
They have huge potential up front, but against say KK or maybe even Tipp theyâll always concede too much[/QUOTE]
Always? Apart from last year say?
[QUOTE=âKid Chocolate, post: 924437, member: 553â]Would strongly disagree, Egan not up to standard, Joyce has a lot to prove,.Murphy now gone, problem with putting 7 behind the balls is it tends to congest that area of the field, Egan and Joyce are exceptionally poor strikers (inter county standard) and when in space they can use their pace to break out and make deliveriesâ but in a sweeper approach that space is harder to find. I think their inability to deliver a platform from HB is their major weakness. ONeill is also a make shift FB but with a stronger bulwark in front of him youâd get away with it. McDonnell also an average ball striker which is not what you need in that sweeper role
They have huge potential up front, but against say KK or maybe even Tipp theyâll always concede too much[/QUOTE]
Clare dropped sweeper system v Cork in the two finals and shipped huge scores but scored enough themselves to draw and then win.
Tipp switched to sweeper system in second half/put two on Harnedy and restricted Corkâs scoring
Sweeper system means the ball from defence has to be accurate. The way to beat it is runners from midfield which Cork eventually started to do but wayward shooting cost them/carrying ball into tacklers and losing it. So to beat sweeper system you need to be very accurate and very efficient.
My view is with a sweeper system Cork restrict other team from scoring and then rely on their forwards being better to win the match.
It will restrict the other team from scoring, but unless you have the proper personnel it will also close/restrict the ball going into the forward division(accurate) at that whole area of the field becomes more congested. Clare have a HB line which is capable of delivering perfect ball into their FF line (Pat OConnorâs, Conor Ryan, Donnellan, (I wouldnât include Bugler, deliveries not his strongest point). Clares HB contains 3 All Stars (if you include Donnelan)
Clareâs sweeper is an excellent striker of the ball (Donnellan)
Cork have none of the above today which is the issue no matter what way you map their defense. B Murphy is possibly the worst loss that could have been inflicted on them IMO
[QUOTE=âKid Chocolate, post: 924446, member: 553â]It will restrict the other team from scoring, but unless you have the proper personnel it will also close/restrict the ball going into the forward division(accurate) at that whole area of the field becomes more congested. Clare have a HB line which is capable of delivering perfect ball into their FF line (Pat OConnorâs, Conor Ryan, Donnellan, (I wouldnât include Bugler, deliveries not his strongest point). Clares HB contains 3 All Stars (if you include Donnelan)
Clareâs sweeper is an excellent striker of the ball (Donnellan)
Cork have none of the above today which is the issue no matter what way you map their defense. B Murphy is possibly the worst loss that could have been inflicted on them IMO[/QUOTE]
the All Stars are a reward for the AI - ref blows up in the first match and they donât get those All Stars
Murphy is a huge loss as he was able to nullify opposing teamâs most dangerous forward - should have won an All Star last year even though only played two games such was his influence
I donât think sweeper necessarily closes up that area and it means more space up front and Horgan, Lehane and Harnedy can win less than perfect ball.
A Clare Kilkenny League final would be interesting to see how Kilkenny set up against Clare.
Conor Ryan was MOTM in the first game and very good in the second, heâs have got one, so would Bugler, the question youâd have to ask is justifying any of the 3 cork HBs in a situation where theyâd mange to win the AI, I donât think you could (outside of Murphy).
The sweepers system does congest up the area its putting more bodies into the same space, thatâs why you do it as a defensive mechanism??? The sweeper close down the space in front of the FB line (normally)
The other serious issue with Cok is the lack of work rate in their forwards (Cronin, Lehane, Moylan, Coughlan) when they donât have the ball, thatâs the area KK are huge in and would cause Clareâs system the most trouble.
in any case the claim that Cork have found exactly what they required in the league is clearly preposterous blusterâŚwhat is it?
[QUOTE=âKid Chocolate, post: 924484, member: 553â]Conor Ryan was MOTM in the first game and very good in the second, heâs have got one, so would Bugler, the question youâd have to ask is justifying any of the 3 cork HBs in a situation where theyâd mange to win the AI, I donât think you could (outside of Murphy).
The sweepers system does congest up the area its putting more bodies into the same space, thatâs why you do it as a defensive mechanism??? The sweeper close down the space in front of the FB line (normally)
The other serious issue with Cok is the lack of work rate in their forwards (Cronin, Lehane, Moylan, Coughlan) when they donât have the ball, thatâs the area KK are huge in and would cause Clareâs system the most trouble.
in any case the claim that Cork have found exactly what they required in the league is clearly preposterous blusterâŚwhat is it?[/QUOTE]
I donât think a sweeper system congests the area for delivery from that area - it is a defensive system but doesnât impact on attacking from that area and in some ways frees it up as you have extra body to launch a pass and more space to launch ball into but it requires good ball and ability for forwards to win ball
agreed re work rate - Cork probably played at their best against Kilkenny last year in terms of constant work rate and intensity. They raised it against Clare in the replay to claw their way back into it but never managed to get ahead and got picked off at the end
I expect Clare to beat Tipp and Kilkenny to beat Galway but it depends on if teams taper training or not as to how they perform. it is a very different game on April pitches as ball doesnât travel at all
[QUOTE=âTheUlteriorMotive, post: 924440, member: 2272â]Clare dropped sweeper system v Cork in the two finals and shipped huge scores but scored enough themselves to draw and then win.
Tipp switched to sweeper system in second half/put two on Harnedy and restricted Corkâs scoring
Sweeper system means the ball from defence has to be accurate. The way to beat it is runners from midfield which Cork eventually started to do but wayward shooting cost them/carrying ball into tacklers and losing it. So to beat sweeper system you need to be very accurate and very efficient.
My view is with a sweeper system Cork restrict other team from scoring and then rely on their forwards being better to win the match.[/QUOTE]
Conor OâSullivan is the only lad capable of successful playing a sweeper. The rest are mediocre at best with the ball in hand.
Itâs astonishing how hard it was for Clare to win the All Ireland when they are so incredibly talented and so much more amazingly better than everyone else. Further proof I think that Davy is a bluffer. They should be winning every game by 20-25 points, dreadful underperformance not to.
