Ireland politics (Part 2)

It is perceived as a real issue, and the effect of it on politics is real. But it isn’t a real issue.

The nuts and bolts of it are real, in that accommodation needs to be found for refugees coming in. But the way the issue is perceived is totally fake.

Lots of things that are perceived as real issues are fake issues merely used to divide and control.

I mean the idea that Democrats are communists has a real effect on American politics, but it’s an entirely made up issue amplified by Nazis and a client media for clicks. The same as this is.

The idea that the Jews were a problem in Germany was a fake issue. Its effect on German politics and German society and on the world was very real. But the “issue” itself was a complete fake, designed only to divide, rule and control and ultimately destroy.

No white Irish suffer because of immigration. They think they do because Nazis tell them they do and the Gardai do absolutely nothing about the Nazis, and the media goes along with the Nazi narrative and reframes it as “respectable” for clicks.

It is not respectable.

Immigrants are framed as “the problem”. But they aren’t. The people who are the problem are the politicians and the media who platform this shit, the Government and the Garda top brass who refuse to clamp down on the Nazis, the social media platforms which are a firehose of Nazi propaganda, and people who relentlessly demonise immigrants and paint them as “the issue”, and unfortunately we have plenty of those posters here.

Those posters are a problem in society. The problem.

The idea that white Irish are suffering because of immigration is a fascistic fever dream.

It affects people on housing lists.

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Ban intra-Ireland migration so. Dublin for the Dubliners. Mayyyyd for the Mayyyyyd people. No Dubs in Mayyyydddd, no Mayyyydddd fuckers in Dublin.

No access to housing lists, no right to live in the place, unless all your grandparents were born inside the canals. Actually scratch that, let’s go back six generations.

Shock horror: people have always moved around. Deal with it. But the people who move around are not the problem - unless they’re coming in to actually kill you, like the Israelis did to the Palestinians or the white colonists did to indigenous people around the world.

The anti-immigration fuckwits actually hero worship that sort of murderous invasion though because they’re white supremacists.

I didn’t say people moving around were the problem. I just pointed out that your thesis is transparently wrong.

The nuts and bolts are real but it isn’t real?

Clearly there are resource impacts of immigration ie budget, housing, health, education etc

Now there are also very positive reasons for immigration such as the need for workers, offering refuge to those seeking asylum, supporting the likes of Ukraine etc.

I think there is a strong argument that done properly the positives are worth the resource impacts but to just deny it all like you’re doing seems to me to feed into the worst of the far-right fear machines we’ve seen emerge in Ireland over the last couple of years

No you didn’t.

The concept of housing lists seems lost on you.

Lists exist because other people exist.

The anti-immigrationists’ real problem is the simple existence of other people in general. The existence of other people is both the joy and the sometimes annoyance of human existence.

Gibberish.

If the population naturally increased by 10% in just over 4 years would you not say it’s an issue?

There isn’t a country on the planet (in any media environment) which wouldn’t have issues associated with that.

This pretending it’s not an issue and people who bring it up are Nazis is ridiculous and counterproductive.

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My post is very easy to understand. Go back and read it.

The challenges of providing things that cater for human existence are real. It’s a challenge to provide sewers and cycle lanes and public transport.

It’s a challenge to overhaul the bus fleet in Dublin, to enlarge the bus fleet. Do Dublin Bus say “we’re suffering as a company because we need more buses because the population is growing, BAN IMMAGRINTS and we wouldn’t have to buy more buses!”

Do they fuck.

Framing is the issue. Framing determines whether something is an issue. The way immigration is framed is entirely bogus, a transparent sham.

No white Irish people suffer because of immigration. The people that think they do are just choosing to wallow in seductive, bullshit racist narratives pushed by vultures.

You exist in a society that doesn’t stay still. If you don’t want to exist in such a society, go out and buy a time machine.

That’s me told anyway, so well argued

“Suffer” is an emotive word chosen to suit your argument. However clearly there has been impact caused by immigration in some communities.

I think of the villages up and down the west coast where local hotels have been long-term leased by the government for Ukrainian refugees. While this is a laudable policy - particularly at the outbreak of war - it clearly has impacted locally where businesses have felt the knock-on impact of a lack of tourism on restaurants, cafes etc. That’s just one example which is caused less by immigration per Se and more by the poor administrative response to it - but it is absolutely incorrect to claim there hasn’t been an impact or that somehow it’s in people’s heads.

I’m really not going to get into a back and forth with you on it because you’re as dogmatic about this sort of stuff as the far-right headbangers and about as likely as them to engage with reasonable facts to adjust your position but if you’re being called out by the likes of @glasagusban and @Juhniallio Id suggest you take the opportunity to quietly shelf this latest rant

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No white Irish have suffered because of immigration to this country. Nobody on this forum has.

If some of the insidious nature of the Nazi propaganda we’re firehosed with has been absorbed by the two posters you mention, I’d suggest you and they consider your/their views and what they are influenced by.

Hilarious. Look over there it’s all Labour’s fault. All damage was obviously the year Kelly was a minister inthe 10 from FG’ biggest hitters, Hogan, Coveney and mmmm Murphy.The state pays an absolute fortune to private landlords. It’s FG policy. It isnt working obviously.

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I have an elderly uncle in poor health who was housed 20km from his home when it was sold by his brother some years ago.

He is on a list since to be rehoused in his original locality and was recently bumped by Limerick City & County Council in favour of a Ukrainian woman who was already in accommodation in Castletroy. Several submissions to TDs & Councillors have resulted in nothing but hand wringing.

It is an issue. There is a clear and honest example.

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If it wasn’t a Ukrainian it would be somebody else. It could be somebody from Dublin. Or Belfast. Or Portugal. Or Brazil.

Half of Shannon was on the run from Belfast.

You cannot have a country that grows in population without experiencing growing pains. Capitalism depends on growth. Growth means labour shortages and services that will not keep up day to day. But it keeps full employment and boosts social spending.

You cannot have a country that falls in population without having severe economic consequences which are worse than the growing pains of a country with a growing population. Capitalism has never found a way to stave off economic decline and all the cuts to social services that go with that in a country with a falling population.

You cannot have even a country that keeps a constant level of population without experiencing issues. Capitalism depends on growth.

No other economic system has proven to be foolproof.

The world can’t keep on growing its population forever.

Basically, there are always problems and always issues and always will be.

We as a species feel the need to demand perfect systems which will never exist. It’s shit, but that’s the way it is.

The issue of immigration in this country is entirely framed through anger against immigrants. That never does and never can lead anywhere good, only to somewhere very bad.

I hope your uncle gets sorted with a place in a good location.

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Another all-encompassing statement on something you’re not in a position know about. Pretty dumb. It undermines the rest of your argument about stirring up resentment of immigration which on the money.

I just posted how the housing stock is growing at the second highest rate in Europe. We produced the most last year btw. Under a FF minister btw.

HAP grew at its highest rate under Minister Kelly fyi

He’s also the one who came up with this great idea

That there are trade offs and nuance to this is obvious. If someone substituted in another issue and associated it with the growing pains of capitalism then you wouldn’t hand wave the issue away.

Hmmm. You have no problem reminding us non stop about worldwide conspiracies from putin etc. One widely recognised one is how putin is delighting in flooding europe with refugees to destabilise it. It’s working. Visibly. Votes for the far right are rising all over europe because of it. Including here.
It’s laughable to say there has been no effect. From people whose businesses were affected to people whose housing situations were affected and many many more. Even in a tiny way my business has been affected by the rise in costs of hotels. I dont really give a fuck but to say it is not an issue in Ireland, when even the minister in charge admits it, is beyond stupid, arrogant and indeed stubborn.

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Shite and bluster as always tim. He also came up with a new process to streamline planning laws. And the vacant site levy that fg have continually stopped. And enshrined it in law that developers HAVE to give over their 10% for social housing and cant buy their way out of it like they could.

And, eh…Is housing the homeless not a good idea?

https://www.theplanner.co.uk/2014/10/03/kelly-unveils-new-planning-measures

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