think they both have made good points
Farmer is right in asking why was reid in a few squads after the hotel incident and then dropped altogether when press started getting on traps back about it…
and rocko is right about reid stepping in and out of games too much for traps system…trap seems to judge a midfielder more for what he does when opposition have the ball than when the actual player has it…
On the one hand, Andy Reid has never faked injury to pull out of an Ireland squad so Rocko will naturally be unable to identify with an honest player. That said, Farmer’s suggestion that Reid is a better player than Stan Petrov is obscene.
Ive been pondering this for a while & the key to Ireland getting to the World cup & doing well there is to focus on the short team- that is the team needs to squeeze the space between the defensive line & the forward line. we need to have an agressive offside trap meaning its hard for teams to get behind us & to play through us teams wil have to break down three barriers in quick succession. added to that the team will need to move up & down the pitch as a unit & even fro left to right as a unit - a showpony with little energy or dig like reid simply does not fit into that syst
eh… its not a computer game they’re playing…
:rolleyes:
[quote=“Rocko”]If ever there was a sign of someone being rattled it is that line.
Have you no gags of your own?
We have no evidence he was a let down in training other than the fact he didn’t get picked on the back of it. It’s more evidence than your Dublin media assertion you clown.
And he has been considered for selection, Trap made a point of saying it only yesterday.
Petrov is relatively ordinary but Reid is a good player, much better than what we have.
Idiot!
He’s awful at dictating the tempo of a game by the way. He likes his passing but he doesn’t touch the ball often enough or in enough important areas to control the pace of the game. I think you think he plays like Pirlo or something!
There’s a difference between questioning him and blindly suggesting that he’s afraid of the notorious Dublin media so he’s dropped Reid in case they get too much influence![/quote]
A typical Rocko response really - very forceful, literally screaming at you through the computer screen with a lot of ‘idiots’ and ‘clown’ to somehow try to add more weight to his argument.
I would dispute that Reid doesn’t get picked on the back of training. I don’t agree with that. Clown, idiot, gobshite. And, as I already said, do you not think that if that is the case it is very harsh on him to not even give him a chance in a proper match, even a friendly to show what he can do? Idiot. Bollox.
I never said he was like Pirlo. Where did I say that? I said he was decent a dictating the pace of a game. At least he gets his head up, looks around and tries to start something instead of the other two lads hiding when the ball comes to the centre halves.
He likes his passing. So are you going to concede that he is a decent passer of the ball?
As for the comparison with Petrov that is pretty pathetic in fairness as I didn’t directly compare the two. When I called Petrov relatively ordinary I meant in the context of midfielders who can completely dominate a midfield by themselves. If he can dominate a midfield then the two opposing midfielders mustn’t be up to much. I would probably say the same thing about Andy Reid but he is much better than what we have.
Wanker.
Are you irish or italian for that post?
again pisspot- this thread is for football fans- not kick catch & pull fans - tactically football ius miles ahead of rural sports & from now on my football related posts will beedging more towards systems than indivduals with 3 notable exceptions
I never said that as my last post in response to the faker will show.
Petrov is hardly a world beater in the overall scheme of things though. Neither is Reid but he is better than what we have.
Irish
[quote=“scumpot”]think they both have made good points
Farmer is right in asking why was reid in a few squads after the hotel incident and then dropped altogether when press started getting on traps back about it…
and rocko is right about reid stepping in and out of games too much for traps system…trap seems to judge a midfielder more for what he does when opposition have the ball than when the actual player has it…[/quote]
My suggestion would be that Andrews/Whelan don’t do a whole lot when the opposition have the ball though.
Pressing for Ireland should largely stem from Whelans aggression,he should be deputed to pick up the oppositions playmaker- be aggressive like akamikaze pilot,the Irish players should not hang back - no they should go with him- press with him-this means we will be playing a very high defensive line & squeezing the space the opposition will have to play- this will be risky but dunne is adept at catching oppositions forwards offside
wha are you talking about??..dunne loves nothing more than coming clean through a forward takin man, ball and all…:rolleyes:
Im talking about the use of space,they have the ball ,make the pitch smaller- we have the ball make the pitch bigger- in efect the pressing of the opposition team has a dual function, by charging the guy with the ball with our spare players(they will have a number of men out of the game in offside positions) playing offside now becomes an offensive game, if we got the ball by doing this dunne & O’shea can drop back & the pitch will become bigger- its all about space
would pressing them not be the opposite to making the pitch small?..they still have the two fullbacks free when they have the ball…Italians are masters at stroking the ball around at the back…if you have players pressing them down then straght away you are pulling your midfield out of position which has a knock effect to leaving the back four exposed…play the way united and chelsea did in nou camp last 2 years…let them keep the ball at back and have the 3 lines across the pitch from midfield back which will definitely make the pitch small…
why do i even bother trying to have a regular exchange with people on here when all I get is this juvenile rubbish
we arent in a position to invite teams on to us - use our strengths-our players strength is athleticism & heart, trapp has the tactical wherewithall to get the best out of that,tactically every player has to be in the right place ,in the defensive phase our players have 4 reference points( the ball, the space, the opponent & our teammates)each movement has to be a function of these 4 reference points,the defensive player MUST decide which of the 4 refernece points determines his movements
in doing this pressing isnt about running or working hard, its about controlling space
[quote=“north county corncrake”]why do i even bother trying to have a regular exchange with people on here when all I get is this juvenile rubbish
[/quote]
:rolleyes::D:D its all about getting bodies in the way lad…condense the whole thing…Italians won’t push on if we don’t make them…
[quote=“Rocko”]Trap made some positive noises about Reid yesterday. Nothing too convincing, just that he’s a good player and he’s in consideration but he’s not in his top 26 at the moment because he’s behind Aiden, Keogh, Lawrence and others.
It is one position where we have plenty of cover anyway. If he was genuinely capable of playing in midfield it would be one thing but there’s no way you can afford to play him there in a 4-4-2 in international football.[/quote]
At least he saw him play which is always my worry when it comes Trapp. Andy Keogh is diabolical as a wide midfielder as proven numerous times in a green jersey. I’d have Reid ahead of any of our wide players. He has far more guile than any of them. The only one you can say for certain who is quicker is Hunt. Duffs pace is gone, Lawrence is slow, a Cypriot caught up with McG despite McG having a ten yard headstart the last day. On that note if McG flunks again on saturday then we can forget about him at international level , at some stage enough is enough… Andy Reid had some fine games on the right too don’t forget during Kerrs time. The home game versus France he was our best attacking player by a distance before Kerr diabolially subbed him for Doherty and sent for the scud missiles.
[quote=“Rocko”]He is more creative but he’s never going to have the energy, the tackling or the discipline to play centrally in a 4-4-2. In a 4-5-1 you could get away with playing him there but even Stevie
Ireland struggled in 4-4-2 for Ireland (despite his goalscoring) and he’s a far superior and more disciplined player.[/quote]
Andy Reid was man of the match in the home game versus Germany in the last campaign. He played centrally in a 442 with Lee Carsley. To be fair I think Whelan does as good a job as Carsley but Reid centrally or out wide should be one of the first names on the teamsheet. Understand about him not being suited to 442 centrally in a high tempo game but would he have been worse than Andrews against Cyprus? Not likely certainly we would have kept the ball a lot better which was the main problem that night. There is one great way to stop the opposition playing, keep the ball. Andy Reid is far superior to any Irish qualified player in this aspect.
And farmer if your going to start blatantly plagiarizing my arguments, posts etc can you please use quotations. Admins do your job
[quote=“north county corncrake”]why do i even bother trying to have a regular exchange with people on here when all I get is this juvenile rubbish
we arent in a position to invite teams on to us - use our strengths-our players strength is athleticism & heart, trapp has the tactical wherewithall to get the best out of that,tactically every player has to be in the right place ,in the defensive phase our players have 4 reference points( the ball, the space, the opponent & our teammates)each movement has to be a function of these 4 reference points,the defensive player MUST decide which of the 4 refernece points determines his movements
in doing this pressing isnt about running or working hard, its about controlling space[/quote]
The only athletic players that will play for Ireland on Sat are O’Shea, Andrews, Hunt and Doyle.
Trapps tactics are to invite teams onto us. We condense the space 10 yards in front of our own box which worked well in Sofia. We then rely on set pieces, luck, moment of creativity from a wide player.think that’s all the goals in this campaign covered.
I’ve watched Petrov for four years at club level. The first two he was totally out of his depth but improved to his natural level over the last couple. He is no world beater much better in a 451 than 442. Cannot turn onto his left side at all and hates being pressurized on the ball. Lacks a touch of pace and seems to tire in games. He has very good positional sense, adept at winning set pieces and is a good team player and organiser. Irish midfield made a hero out of him in Dublin. Even if one of our strikers dropped deeper on him he wouldn’t have liked it. Our fabled IL Trapp didn’t though.
Reid is far more talented than Petrov but wouldn’t have his drive or discipline. On the other hand Reid would have more guile as a midfielder.
[quote=“Rocko;256868][quote=farmerinthecity”]If ever there was a sign of someone being rattled it is that line.
Have you no gags of your own?
We have no evidence he was a let down in training other than the fact he didn’t get picked on the back of it. It’s more evidence than your Dublin media assertion you clown.
And he has been considered for selection, Trap made a point of saying it only yesterday.
Petrov is relatively ordinary but Reid is a good player, much better than what we have.
Idiot!
He’s awful at dictating the tempo of a game by the way. He likes his passing but he doesn’t touch the ball
often enough or in enough important areas to control the pace of the game. I think you think he plays like Pirlo or something!
There’s a difference between questioning him and blindly suggesting that he’s afraid of the notorious Dublin media so he’s dropped Reid in case they get too much influence![/quote]
Some utter horseshit there. If Pirlo had created Kenwyne Jones goal at the weekend no doubt he would have been praised to the hilt. But when it’s the tubby one who produces the best individual play of the game last Saturday in Old Trafford there is hardly a word. Reid is a fine player imo. His personal discipline being the only thing that has held him back from the highest level in club football. In any case is anyone comparing Whelan, Andrews, Gibson, mcG etc to top world class players,