Like most shit stirrers, you know extraordinarily little. Yourself and Henry Martin could be tied together.
Fact: (Ballyhale) Shamrocks did not exist when FC, through his work as a Garda, left Kilkenny – in 1968, I think. His native Kilkenny club was Knocktopher.
Fact: FC hurled a season with Cobh, where he was stationed, and then joined Blackrock.
Fact: FC left the Gardaí in the mid 1970s and went into demolition. Much of his work contacts were Blackrock related, a factor that could not be ignored.
Fact: there was never the remotest criticism of FC in (Ballyhale) Shamrocks or in the parish. Quite the contrary: he was and is revered as a hurler and as a personable individual.
Fact: FC was offered both the club captaincy and the county captaincy (if a Senior title was won). He wanted to take up this offer and transfer to (Ballyhale) Shamrocks but could not do so for work reasons.
Ireland was a lot different back in the 60’s and 70’s, you could just go back for a year or two.
For what it’s worth I’d have FC in my top 5 KK hurlers of all time, behind JJ, Tommy & DJ and ahead of TJ.
Alan Cummins was the mascot in ‘83 - he came to our school with his Dad and the Cup I remember, I would have been starting 3rd class. I remember us boys saying Cummins Jr must have got the gig as he was the best hurler of our age at the time
This is purely anecdotal and I know next to nothing about the club, except for this, they played Ballycastle McQuillans in an All Ireland club semi final sometime around '79’80. They were billed as Ballyhale Shamrocks. That was a match that I attended. I’ve been trying to get a hold of a friend of mine to see if by any chance he’d have a programme from that game but haven’t been able to get him so far.
Now, that may just have been how Shamrocks were referred to up here in the wee six at that time but it is my clear recollection of it.
As for Frank Cummins - I also remember him playing for Blackrock against Ballycastle in the same competition a couple of years before that. The Blackrock team was studded with All Stars. I remember being told there were 5 or 6 of them. Ray Cummins played that day. The only other I recall is Tom Cashman.
Actually, @Glentaisie may, if he’s old enough, remember this. He’s Ballycastle born, bred and buttered.
You make a great point. I have that programme and was surprised to note, a couple of years ago, exactly the facet you highlight. But that name designation, in truth, was an outlier. Very very rarely happened between 1972 and 1997. I do remember a SKC schools programme in the mid 1990s where the club of our lads was given as ‘Ballyhale Shamrocks’. But, again, very much a rarity.
The club name was sometimes given, during those 25 years, as The Shamrocks. Shamrocks (Ballyhale) was also used at times – as a response, I reckon, to Conahy Shamrocks going Senior in the mid 1970s.
I suspect the club’s original name, formally, was ‘Na Seamróga’. But this facet has been lost, inquiries revealed, in 1970s mists.
I would be happy if the club’s name had not swerved in the late 1990s. But I am a realist and a pragmatist, someone who does not believe you can erase 21 years of history by merely wishing it erased.
And: I dislike the irrational as much as I dislike shit stirrers.
Was Bill Walsh Knocktopher or Knockmoylan? Played with Kilkenny then moved to Young Irelands in Dublin. Think he won two all irelands in the 40’s with KK. Died in the past few years.
Thank you! It’s gratifying to know that my memory hasn’t failed me. A further point - good relations must have been established between the clubs because I also remember (Ballyhale) Shamrocks returning to Ballycastle for an invitational tournament a year or two later. Again, I was at that game and it was a wonderful high scoring exhibition of hurling from both sides.
As an afterthought - I wonder if the billing as Ballyhale Shamrocks had anything to do with the fact that we have our very own Shamrocks (Loughgiel) up here. They and Ballycastle would, in the day, have been great rivals and only 15 miles apart.
Bill (who was known as Willie Walsh during his playing days) was from Coolmore, a Ballyhale townland considered part of the Knocktopher scheme of things. He hurled with Carrickshock until 1950 and then moved to Young Ireland, because he lived in Dublin. I seem to remember that he had a year or two during the 1940s – during The Emergency, I think – hurling with a Dublin club and hurling with Dublin. Travel was difficult in those years, obviously.
Bill was considered one of the country’s best hurlers between the mid 1940s and the mid 1950s. Most typically a wing back. Seemingly brilliant, with the ball in the air, at pulling/flicking with his arms fully extended. Was picked to start against Cork in 1947 AIF but had to cry off because of a poisoned finger (once said to me in Andy’s Bar that he could take me to see the sceach in Coolmore where the thorn poisoned his finger). Came on as a sub, at 35 years of age, in 1957 AIF. Won a Dublin Senior Final with Young Ireland, hurling at centre back, in 1965.
Nice man too, in my slight experience of him during the 2000s and after. He would come down for all the big club matches.
He was a gent. Never drank until he gave up hurling. Why did he hurl with Carrickshock? No team in the Irish or because they were senior? Any time I met , he was a fierce Ballyhale man.
I think you are right about the significance of Loughgiel’s presence. At any rate, such was my own thought as well after I saw that programme.
I believe Loughgiel Shamrocks were originally Shamrocks? Or am I raving? My sense is that they became Loughgiel Shamrocks because of their success. And my further sense is that this dynamic applies in some sense to my own crowd. I think the Wexford club Shamrocks would have become known, if they had become comparably successful, as Enniscorthy Shamrocks.
