Itâs amazing how much time a clare supporter has to comment on Limerick hurling.
Then again, we must remember that you are a Limerick man, like most clare supporters
Harsh as theyâve produced some very good players over the last few years.
Mackey is only back from a long lay off too. Hasnât a whole pile of hurling down. Very exciting.
I meant you were obviously a kildimo man, not Willie.
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No near bye and seen a lot of him play that is all.
a team in decline 
Kelly wasnât even born in 73 what the fuck are you on about you Clare ape?
What time is the football on
what are you on about now this is the limerick thread.
4 oâclock
He is Limerick, as are you.
Thatâs why I presume you are discussing him on the Limerick thread.
The reason Clare was sucessful in the 90s and over the last few years as both periods coincided with lotâs of Limerick folk moving over the border into Clare - In around Clonlara, Shannon, Sixmilebridge etc. etc⌠When the boundry is rightly pushed out we will have all these areas back.
There is nothing clare about those areas.
People there are born in Limerick, go to school or college or university in Limerick, socialise in Limerick, work in Limerick, shop in Limerick, use the infrastructure provided by Limerick.
A lot of them are even playing hurling for club sides in Limerick.
The border extension will resolve this anomaly.
When searching for some semblance of perspective on the Tipp debacle, I ended up going back to the last time they gave us a trimming in 2009 before spending the week reviewing the 2011 season, where the nucleus of the current side was formed (truthfully I stumbled on the 2011 season by accident - my kingdom for a paginated thread)
How we got here:
The 09 panel was backboned by the 05 minor team - the 07 AI final team was refreshed by the likes of Condon at corner back, Gavin at wing back, Hickey in midfield and Jim bob at half forward. Dave Moloney, erstwhile Labour election candidate was centre back and played well at corner back for the seniors anytime I saw him. We seem to find and discard decent corner backs with gleeful abandon.
The less said about the 2010 championship the better, although a surprising number of the current panel lined out with the development squad that year.
Breen and Browne passed the picket to stay on the panel, with Graeme Mulcahy the main forward threat and both Barry Hennessy and Nicky Quaid on the bench.
Interestingly, given our current woes, Breen played full back between Shane OâNeill and Kieran OâRourke, both of whom looked decent in later sides.
The (long) way back:
Donal OâGrady knitted together a panel in 2011 from the '09 strikers and their '10 replacements, bringing in some of the future U21 Munster winning side to complete numbers following a lengthy weeding out process during the spring.
The imprinted short-passing game was successfully adopted with the spine of the team that beat Clare in Ennis in a decent league campaign and lost to Waterford narrowly in Munster being close to current version.
Gavin played full back until the league final, Hickey full back for the championship, with Geary (disastrously against Dublin) at centre back flanked by Wayne and Gavin.
The Dodge-Browne-Jim bob triumvirate took shape in the middle whilst Hannon and Downes improved our scoring threat up front.
Richie Mac was alternating between wing and corner forward as our free taker extraordinaire. Given how he would respond to DOGâs second spell in charge, perhaps he was played out of position for the same reason the Rock was shunted to the corner for Pat Mulcahy, managerial motivation to get himself fit before being restored to his rightful position?
A few minor tweaks aside, John Allen limited changes to the introduction of Paudie and Dowling along with the relaxation of the short passing game, striking a nice balance between the support running style of DOG and the (current) more direct approach of TJ, loosening the shackles offensively by playing to the strengths of the now established Dowling-Hannon-Downes-Mulcahy axis from the U21 side enabled by savage workrate from Hickey and Breen in the half forward line (establishing a fondness for oriental philosophy within the squad at the same time) and moving Dodge to sweep between the 45s and McCarthy to full back.
Since 2013 DOG has been and gone, (with the mystery of our middling to poor league form remaining since his first departure) weâve won 1 Munster final and lost another and TJ has added Seanie OâBrien and Cian Lynch to the side, favouring a less defensive formation and a more direct attacking threat; albeit one that seems easier to shut down if we donât dominate midfield. The return of Downes may help in this regard, along with Browne and Breen getting up to speed.
What does all this tell us?
The current side has essentially been together since 2011
Donal OâGrady established the squad, and the ground rules for training, dietary and medical standards and coached a revamped version of the running game he used with the Cork side of 03-05
Allen repeated his party piece by following DOG, beating Tipp twice in Munster (including a 2013 victory over a Tipp side giving a debut to bubbles who got 1-03 as a second half sub) resulting in our first Munster
championship in 17 years.
TJ spent time as a selector under DOG and took the job outright following our (now customary) disappointing 2014 league campaign.
If last year the direct approach was forced upon us in a monsoon against KK, this year all pretence of a varied gameplan went out the window. So far weâve shown a fondness for third midfielders when behind and
roving half forwards looking for non-existent corner forwards. A misfiring middle third is restricting our attacking outlets and reducing us to aimless balls into Dowling on the few occasions our half backs and midfielders emerge unhindered with the ball.
The current side:
The squad is essentially composed of the the '05 minors (defence and midfield) and the '11 U21s in attack, most of whom have been senior for 3-4 years now.
The average age of the side that faced Tipp last week was 26. Only Dodge is over 30. Breen is 29. Gavin and Stephen Walsh are 28. Hickey, Wayne, Jim bob, and Richie are 27.
Compare that to the current Waterford side average of 23.5 or Clareâs All-Ireland winning side with an average age of 22.
The minors of '13 and '14, Lynch aside, have yet to have the opportunity to make an impact.
The performance curve of the side since 2011:
2011 promotion from league 2, lose to Waterford by 1 pt in Munster.
Quarter final starts disastrously conceding 3 goals to Dublin to go out in the qualifiers. Definite progress.
Win Munster U21 final for the ages before losing semi final to Galway by 2 pts.
2012 over-run by Clare in February before losing league final by 2 pts. Allen begins our more relaxed approach to the league.
Lose to Tipp by 4 pts in a game we could have won. Beat Laois and Antrim before gaining revenge on Clare in their tippy-tappy phase. Lose to KK by 8 pts in the quarter final. Progress, perhaps more slowly.
2013 top 1B but lose the final to Dublin by 1 pt.
Beat Tipp and cork at home to win first Munster championship since '96. Get carried away with ourselves and lose semi final to worthy champions Clare by 7 pts. Silverware to rubber-stamp progress.
Itâs possible to argue that this team peaked in 2013 but the fact we played all our Munster games at home, combined with Horganâs sending off against cork, Callinan missing the sliotar and Nicky keeping us in it against Tipp suggests we rode our luck in 2013.
2014 unbeaten in 1B but a draw against Cork and (shamefully) against Offaly mean we finish 2nd and stay where we are for the fourth year in a row (thank you Justin)
Beat Tipp in Thurles in injury time before adding to the heartbreak by losing the semi final to the cats in a deluge. Go toe-to-toe with the big two and can hold our heads high. Progress?
2015 draw with Waterford, coming from 10 pts down at ht. go one better this year by managing to lose to Offaly. (Perhaps we should have heeded the warning signs)
still stuck in 1B with only Wexford and Clare for company next year.
Hammered out the gate in limerick, Tipp beat us a point a man.
The rest of the season:
The Westmeath game will tell us nothing about the established squad members but may serve a useful purpose for some of the new ones. TJ might try to save his bacon by throwing them in and offering a glimpse of the future. However, we donât need youth merely for the sake of it. If theyâre better than whatâs already there by all means letâs see them, otherwise donât risk alienating good hurlers by asking them to invigorate a misfiring side.
We look unfit, which may be more relevant than the age of the squad when assessing our performance in 2015. Hopefully this can be remedied before the season restarts against Wexford, Dublin or Cork. Decide on a game plan that the players understand, and more importantly, that the management are capable of coaching.
Management also must react more quickly on the sideline, pre-planned subs at 50 and 60 mins wonât cut it in knockout hurling. Assign man-markers and sweeper(s) and ensure everyone knows who they are before throw-in. Decide where Dowling, Hannon, Mulcahy and Lynch are playing. What do we have to do to create the platform they need to win a game? Show some signs of progress and that some lessons have been learned this year and the case for retaining management can be made. Otherwise the dream ticket of Daly and Kinnerk, loitering with intent, are lurking just off-stage.
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Fantastic post, best Iâve seen in a long long time.
Fairplay pal 
Great post, welcome back
@bandage - the main man is on board
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If ever a âwinnerâ rating was needed, its for this post.
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Very similar circumstances TS, it was maybe easier for Hammy to make his point last year though as that was a league semi-final rather then the final itself.
How the fuck the County Board managed this is beyond me.
Very good post