Tut tut
Iâd say thatâs a troll account or a fake
Nope, he was big on Jeopardy for a few years. Heâs just a hyper Covider.
No one will be looking at curves in 5 years time. No one will be looking at how many days little Johnnyâs school was closed or how long the building site was shut. They will look at fatalities. Rational people will look at Sweden and ask why they had far more fatalities than Denmark or Norway. People will wonder why the US and the UK had such a shitshow. Hospital curves and building site closures will not give them answers which is presumably why youâre so willing to discuss such an irrelevant issue.
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Will they just look at covid fatalities? I must have missed this part, have people only died of covid in the past 2.5 years? Thatâs strange.
It would also be strange if these rational people only compared Sweden to Norway and Denmark. That doesnât seem rational at all. How would that play out I wonder.
âOk itâs 5 years on now and we want to look at the effectiveness of lockdowns.â
âOk great well I suppose the logical place to start would be to compare Sweden with other countries seen as they had the loosest of restrictions in Europe anyway.â
âAgree with you to a point but we should only compare them to countries that had lower death rates to them and completely ignore and exclude those countries that had far stricter lockdowns yet had much higher death rates.â
âErmmmmâŚâ
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I think it makes sense to compare similar countries and acknowledge key differences. Swedenâs obvious comparators are Norway and Finland. This should be obvious to anyone, including OIUTF Sweden fans. Equally, itâs stupid to compare New Zealand to Ireland and zero covid advocates suggesting Ireland could have done the same as NZ did are simply wrong.
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So to be clear, after you have failed to put forward a convincing argument to the original point (keeping schools and construction closed was the right shout), you say it doesnât matter anyway.
Itâs insightful that you try to characterise âLittle Johnnyâ missing school as irrelevant. Despite it being shown that it damages childrenâs education not to be in person, apparently that doesnât matter. That is your value system and not mine- you are rather proving the point I am making when you show such little disregard for the provision of education, housing and an assortment of other social matters.
Once again on hospitalisation curves, which was the point we were discussing, there is a clear enough pattern. The curves go up and down in two month sprints.
Lockdowns, like Irelandâs in October 2020, might delay things a little. Irelandâs January peak does somewhat stock out though- with it arguable that the November lockdown made things worse.
In terms of actually flattening the curve, if we look at places like Denmark we see they were far more successful than Ireland. Their strategy beyond the first lockdown was mass testing, contact tracing, ventilation etc and they were in lockdown for far less time than Ireland. Their political authorities articulated to the population the dangers of restrictions. And of course their fatalities were far lower, which is the only thing you claim to matter.
Whatâs your explanation for Bulgaria, Hungary, Czech, Croatia, Slovakia, Romania, Poland, Belgium and Italy? Did they all just âlet it ripâ? No restrictions in any of these countries?
By your âlogicâ they must have âlet it ripâ as they had higher fatalities than the UK, the country you claim âlet it ripâ.
Or maybe most restrictions made no difference to fatalities.
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I do love it when the nutcases are stumped by a basic, pertinent fact which shows they were wrong, and so go on a furious rant to deflect.
Yes of course you can compare them but you would need to take into account that Sweden has much higher population densities in parts to either of those countries, much higher immigrant population, older age profiles and afaik both Norway and Finland effectively closed their borders so not that straightforward a comparator at all. I do agree though that you have to look at many many things and we still donât seem to know much about why some places were hit so much harder than others.
But I think only comparing Sweden to countries that are close to them geographically and not comparing them to anywhere else when evaluating the effectiveness of lockdowns is next level stoopid and Iâd struggle to see a case for doing so.
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Itâs aimed a humble people, Mike.
The number of deaths in Poland last year was the highest since WWII. Excess deaths 29% higher. The relatively low vaccination rate possibly a factor in the last four months of the year. Few restrictions since May.
Have you or any of the other let it rip cultists taken into account that Sweden has by a distance the highest percentage of people living on their own of any EU country?
No, of course you havenât.
Norway and Finland actually had less restrictive policies than Sweden and have the lowest fatalities in Europe. Our World in Data based in Oxford University keep track of the severity of restrictions during the course of the pandemic by country, Norway and Finland ranked the lowest in Europe throughout the pandemic, the highest are Italy, Ireland, France, Spain in that order. Eastern Europe also had very strict restrictions.
What the data actually shows is that countries with the highest level of restrictions had the highest fatalities, Ireland is a bit of an exception due to itâs very young population and the reality that many of Irelandâs older population reside in the UK. The highest fatalities were in countries with the longest lockdowns, Belgium, Italy, eastern Europe.
The reality is that government intervention did nothing to slow the spread of Covid, and in some cases made it worse (Irelandâs infamous âhave a meaningful Christmas in 2020â). Whether governments implemented draconian lockdowns, modest lockdowns or no lockdowns made no difference to the virus spreading and the waves associated with each variant. You can see this clearly in the US, where states with the longest and strictest lockdowns did no better than those with the least restrictions.
All this has been obvious since late 2020, but the narrative that government restrictions saved millions of lives is still widespread, even though the only people who truly believe this are Zero Covid fruitcakes.
Cue some moron bringing up a few sparsely populated islands in the Pacific a thousand miles from the nearest human population. Because clearly Europe and the US are exactly like that example.
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Yep thatâs another factor to be taken into account. There are lots of different variables and lots of things that are still unknown about the cunt of a thing. I just think Sweden should be compared to countries with higher fatalities as well as lower fatalities when evaluating the effectiveness of lockdowns. Donât you?
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No only much, much lower ones. Same with the likes of Florida.
Your attempts to ignore fatality rates are understandable. You prefer to focus on how certain short term restrictions,which are no longer in place, impacted people you care little about. Many people unnecessarily died because heroes of yours like Boris, Bolsanaro and Trump listened to the likes of Sunetra Gupta and Anders Tegnell. Those that died stay dead but you are more concerned about the âdamageâ to kids who are back in school and the builders who are back on site. Good man Tim.
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I think by far the most pertinent countries to compare Sweden to are the ones where the variables are similar or comparable.
They failed utterly in comparison to them.
This pesky little fact irks the hell out of you cultists, which is terribly amusing.
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Denmark have lower fatalities than Ireland but were not locked down as long as Ireland despite accepting the reality that it was all over Europe. Itâs interesting that you mention Boris when the U.K. and Ireland largely followed the exact same restrictions policies until the vaccine programme. You are a bit dim though so just follow an easy narrative.
The reason you are dismissing the impact on children in schools is because you are an âIâm alrightâ sort. I assume you had the time to educate yours whilst slacking off on your bosses time. Youâve previously tried to claim to have a social conscious, youâve revealed that to be a lie.