As reflected by another Champion’s League final appearance two years later.[/quote]
Well done to him. Leeds were a goal away from a final in this decade too? They also wasted a lot of money on ordinary players. But shur who cares? Rafa did good…:rolleyes:
I am sorry but you are completely wrong here.
Whether it was Houllier’s team or not in 2005 is irrelevant. Benitez took an extremely ordinary team to a Champions League win in 2005, beating some of Europe’s best along the way. No one ever calls United’s win two years ago as very lucky eventhough they won it on penalties.
As WTB said, Rafa followed that up with a final two years later, then a semi final and then a quater final where they lost narrowly to Chelsea. Outside of this year, he has an excellent European record, in fact it is on a par with Ferguson’s.
I don’t think anyone one here is trying to say that Benitez is faultless but you cannot argue with his excellent European record and to dismiss it all as not having a clue is completely wrong.
Yeah fair enough but people get on his back about getting found out tactically. He’s certainly done well enough in Europe to suggest he’s good at setting teams up and he’d probably make a cracking international manager if he ever wanted it.
His transfers are his real weak point - not so much who he’s buying (though they’ve been bad) but his overall strategy:
Real lack of strategic vision.
[quote=“Rocko”]Yeah fair enough but people get on his back about getting found out tactically. He’s certainly done well enough in Europe to suggest he’s good at setting teams up and he’d probably make a cracking international manager if he ever wanted it.
His transfers are his real weak point - not so much who he’s buying (though they’ve been bad) but his overall strategy:
Real lack of strategic vision.[/quote]
Don’t forget Bellamy in that as well.
I think his biggest problem is that he over analyses things too much. For the first four years of his reign he changed the team drastically every week. This had a massive downward effect on the league performance. When he finally got his finger out last year and stopped the rotating Liverpool had a pretty decent season. Some would say that they threw it away, possibly but at least it was progress and for the first time in 15 years a Liverpool team showed real Championship winning form.
This season has been a disaster but it should not wipe away Rafa’s achievements. The loss of Alonso has been catastrophic - even worse than I would have thought. The constant playing of Lucas in there even now with a relatively fit 20 million midfielder beggars belief really.
Also his playing of Kuyt, originally bought as a 10 million striker, on the right with a not good enough Ngog up front and a creative force in Benayoun on the bench is also ridiculous.
[quote=“farmerinthecity”]Don’t forget Bellamy in that as well.
I think his biggest problem is that he over analyses things too much. For the first four years of his reign he changed the team drastically every week. This had a massive downward effect on the league performance. When he finally got his finger out last year and stopped the rotating Liverpool had a pretty decent season. Some would say that they threw it away, possibly but at least it was progress and for the first time in 15 years a Liverpool team showed real Championship winning form.
This season has been a disaster but it should not wipe away Rafa’s achievements. The loss of Alonso has been catastrophic - even worse than I would have thought. The constant playing of Lucas in there even now with a relatively fit 20 million midfielder beggars belief really.
Also his playing of Kuyt, originally bought as a 10 million striker, on the right with a not good enough Ngog up front and a creative force in Benayoun on the bench is also ridiculous.[/quote]
Yeah knew there was another one. They’re 3 decent strikers, all with their faults but all way better than N’Gog (and even better than Doyle despite KIB Man’s arguments).
How does Benayoun do when he’s played on the left? For all Kuyt’s faults he is effective out there and neither Babel nor Riera are completely convicing on the left. It is odd that they can’t find room for Benayoun there, he’s even more important since Alonso left.
Obviously Xabi and Rafa didn’t see eye to eye anymore but it was still a terrible decision to sell him. Real forced their hand a bit in the end but only after Liverpool had gone out of their way to get rid of him the year before.
Don’t think they threw it away last season though, they were never really favourites to win the league.
[quote=“Rocko”]Yeah knew there was another one. They’re 3 decent strikers, all with their faults but all way better than N’Gog (and even better than Doyle despite KIB Man’s arguments).
How does Benayoun do when he’s played on the left? For all Kuyt’s faults he is effective out there and neither Babel nor Riera are completely convicing on the left. It is odd that they can’t find room for Benayoun there, he’s even more important since Alonso left.
Obviously Xabi and Rafa didn’t see eye to eye anymore but it was still a terrible decision to sell him. Real forced their hand a bit in the end but only after Liverpool had gone out of their way to get rid of him the year before.
Don’t think they threw it away last season though, they were never really favourites to win the league.[/quote]
They had a spell of draws after Christmas which scuppered their chances. That was combined with a great run by United. I wouldn’t say that they threw it away but they were in with more than decent shout all season apart from that blip.
Benayoun is a quality player. He can play well on the left or the right. But the issue at the moment is that there is no proper striker in the team in Torres’ absense. A front four of Benayoun and Riera/Aurelio on the flanks with Gerrard off Kuyt makes more sense than Kuyt on the right, Ngog up top and Benayoun on the bench. Agreed that none of the left sided players have really showed top form but Riera can contribute a bit as can Aurelio.
Another problem of course has been the defense. I think the team is displaying a complete lack of confidence really. Carragher, for his faults, has to play in the centre as any other combination looks very, very shaky.
The purchase of Kyriagos was ridiculous as well, Why not bring Ayala through instead of splashing 2.5 million on a dead duck?
The main problem though is this midfield and specifically Lucas - the worst Brazilian I have ever seen play football.
On Alonso, I think it is wrong to suggest that he left completely due to Rafa attempting to sell him. He has already mentioned the massive monetary gain on wages from moving to Spain between tax rates and exchange rates. Also at 27 years old, the chance to play for a massive club in his homeland was obviously a big draw (despite the fact he is a ‘proud’ Basque).
:rolleyes:
Lord Ferg doesn’t even look at a League Table until after Christmas.
The truth is Liverpool were never in the running, and were always playing catch up while United hit the front, had the bottle to stay there, and as usual, won the League.
Lord Ferg doesn’t even look at a League Table until after Christmas.
The truth is Liverpool were never in the running, and were always playing catch up while United hit the front, had the bottle to stay there, and as usual, won the League.[/quote]
Of course they were in the running.
Had Macheda not turned up with that wonder goal against Villa who knows what might have happened? United were seriously creaking at that stage.
Anyway we are talking about Liverpool here and the progress they made last season.
[quote=“farmerinthecity”]Of course they were in the running.
Had Macheda not turned up with that wonder goal against Villa who knows what might have happened? United were seriously creaking at that stage.
Anyway we are talking about Liverpool here and the progress they made last season.[/quote]
Ah come on now Farmer, less of the ifs, buts, hads and maybes.
You say “progress” when describing Liverpool last season, I say it was a “lucky” season. A freak season…when a team performs above their established norm. Before last season they were non title challangers who usually held onto their champions league status and now this season they are non title challangers who will probably hold their champions league status. Last season was the blip, a blip in Liverpool’s favour. The run of games after Christmas was the norm.
[quote=“tipptops*”]Ah come on now Farmer, less of the ifs, buts, hads and maybes.
You say “progress” when describing Liverpool last season, I say it was a “lucky” season. A freak season…when a team performs above their established norm. Before last season they were non title challangers who usually held onto their champions league status and now this season they are non title challangers who will probably hold their champions league status. Last season was the blip, a blip in Liverpool’s favour. The run of games after Christmas was the norm.[/quote]
I have to laugh at this ‘lucky’ term used to describe last season.
A season where a team performs well in comparison to previous seasons does not equate to ‘lucky’. You cannot be ‘lucky’ over 38 games. The fact that the start to this season has been poor does not reinforce that point. I would point more to the loss of our main midfielder and his replacement with a piece of shit.
But Farmer, United lost the best player in the World in the summer. The Ballon D’or from the previous season. And yet they are still up there, in line with the established norms and routine of the club.
That again doesn’t reinforce the point that Liverpool were ‘lucky’. Would you say that United are a better team this season? Ceratinly not.
Liverpool played well last season when in all reality they were out of it. All very easy play with the shackles off when your 11 points behind. If they had to go to Old Trafford with the sides level theres no evidence to say theyd have won 4-1. They had to go to Boro and win and lost, they had to beat Stoke, Hull, West Ham, Fulham & Everton at home and couldnt. When the pressure was off they made a race of it, thats all. I honestly think they are stone cold rubbish to watch, some of their players wouldnt grace a mid table squad.
Farmer youve never seen Raphael in the flesh if you think Lucas is the worst ever Brazilian btw.
[quote=“Special Olympiakos”]Liverpool played well last season when in all reality they were out of it. All very easy play with the shackles off when your 11 points behind. If they had to go to Old Trafford with the sides level theres no evidence to say theyd have won 4-1. They had to go to Boro and win and lost, they had to beat Stoke, Hull, West Ham, Fulham & Everton at home and couldnt. When the pressure was off they made a race of it, thats all. I honestly think they are stone cold rubbish to watch, some of their players wouldnt grace a mid table squad.
Farmer youve never seen Raphael in the flesh if you think Lucas is the worst ever Brazilian btw.[/quote]
That is ridiculous.
They had to go to Old Trafford and win to stay in the League. That is more pressure than if you are level on points. They did so convincingly and as a result put the shits up United.
[quote=“farmerinthecity”]That is ridiculous.
They had to go to Old Trafford and win to stay in the League. That is more pressure than if you are level on points. They did so convincingly and as a result put the shits up United.[/quote]
They had no chance of winning the league so they had nothing to lose. When it counted they bottled it.
QED
No, United are a lesser team this season, but are still achieving their targets - Through to the last 16 of the Champions League & in touch in the Title race. Before last season United were always up there - therefore when they won the League it was a case of move along, nothing to see here. Liverpool were 2nd, above the norm for them, based on the previous 10 or so years standings, Was the season a statement of intent from Liverpool that things were going to be different from now on or was it a flash in the pan? This season’s results, added to the wieght of the previous 10/15 years of history, point towards a flash in the pan. A lucky season.
Whats the deal with the Aquilani fella? Is he still injured?
No.
He’s a great player in training…
I’ve always been a supporter of Benitez but after this I’m started to fear for his sanity:
I think the fans will get to see the best of Aquilani this season. It is a question of time, said the Liverpool manager, who plans to rest Lucas Leiva against the Group E leaders and deploy the 25-year-old Italian alongside Javier Mascherano in central midfield.
Only yesterday he scored an amazing goal in training. We had two. Fabio Aurelio scored with a volley from 30 metres and then Aquilani scored with a left-footed chip over [Jose] Reina. It was very, very good, and he showed touches of quality."
