Your the only one who says they are shit, yet they got to the Semi final last year. There was nobody else shouting them down.
They just donât seem to have developed like i thought they might, still time of course. They should still beat the lard out of your lot.
Taz - In fairness, anyone good enough for an IC try out should be making their club team regardless of outside players. While in an overall sense i agree, i donât think that is stopping Gilroy picking Dublin players. Iâd say it probably has more to do with size and things like that and other preconceived ideas if you believe the players are there.
Anyone who says anything else is talking through their hole.
They donât have a wealth of great footballers and by reaching the semis last year they were punching above their weight. Lost narrowly to Tyrone the previous year also. I think the previous year to that, when McGeeney was not in charge, they beat Fermanagh is one of the worst qualifier matches I have ever seen and Cork beat them handily enough before they were beaten pretty easily by Kerry in the semis.
Its ok caoimhaoin, nothing wrong with climb downs, you should be getting used to it of late. Its only the internet mate, try not take it so seriously eh? Good man.
Ah heâs done a good job Farmer, but one has to wonder now does he have a real ability to bring them further and the ability to tweak a game plan and make good decisions on the line etc.
Its like he has this formula, and has the subs ready to go on a bit of paper before the game and all that, super organised. But if things are not going to plan he seems a bit lost. And his constant talking about refs has the sounds of a man looking for someone else to blame.
Heâs been brilliant in the building a squad and unity and spirit. But there is more to it than that at the very highest level. In a number of games, including that Semi Final last year they have switched off for periods of games, and it cost them. You look at Cork in the All-Ireland, they never switched off. Ok things werenât rolling the way they wanted for 20-25 minutes, but they stuck at it and reaped the rewards. Tyrone, Kerry, Armagh and all the good teams are just like that, Kildare and Dublin donât really have that yet. On recent evidence i would feel Dublin could get to that level, but youâd have to wonder about Kildare, and thats a management issue.
Bit of a difference between a climb down (like farmer or KIB are experts in) and a change of opinion. Anyway its only an observation as of yet, long time to go.
Kev - Some players DEVELOP into better players the older they get â and playing at a senior club level would help. But a 19 year old will never develop with his club side if there are 3 mongs from Laois (for example) getting their place on his club team ahead of him, therefore he will never get the chance to develop into an intercounty player. Ya dig??? Taz is 100% on the money with his football analysis there
I donât however agree re the hurling side. A lot of poaching goes on at club hurling, but because itâs kept under-age it has a lower profile as such. I can think of 4 young lads who were âluredâ to âbiggerâ hurling clubs with the promise of being seen by the various Dublin Management teams (minor, U21 etc). But itâs not good to be criticising Dublin Hurling at the minute, so will be swept under the carpet
[quote=âcaoimhaoin, post: 579928â]
Ah heâs done a good job Farmer, but one has to wonder now does he have a real ability to bring them further and the ability to tweak a game plan and make good decisions on the line etc.
Its like he has this formula, and has the subs ready to go on a bit of paper before the game and all that, super organised. But if things are not going to plan he seems a bit lost. And his constant talking about refs has the sounds of a man looking for someone else to blame.
Heâs been brilliant in the building a squad and unity and spirit. But there is more to it than that at the very highest level. In a number of games, including that Semi Final last year they have switched off for periods of games, and it cost them. You look at Cork in the All-Ireland, they never switched off. Ok things werenât rolling the way they wanted for 20-25 minutes, but they stuck at it and reaped the rewards. Tyrone, Kerry, Armagh and all the good teams are just like that, Kildare and Dublin donât really have that yet. On recent evidence i would feel Dublin could get to that level, but youâd have to wonder about Kildare, and thats a management issue.[/quote]
Is it really though?
Kildare are not blessed with great players. I think McGeeney has done very well with what he has and if he took Kildare to an All Ireland, that would be a phenomenal achievement.
I know what youâre saying, and youâre right to a certain extent, but I think McGeeney must be given huge credit for the unity, organisation and preparation he has brought to Kildare. This has them punching above their weight for the players they have imo.
He does have his faults as you have described but heâs only a relatively young manager himself and is learning. Either way, they have come on a lot from when he took them over and that is really what he should be judged by in my view.
Ya i understand that Taz, its a fair point. But its Dublin, the big smoke, its the way it is really. Really Dublin people canât complain too much though seeing as they let this happen. The people within the clubs are at fault for it.
Anyway these are not the players Taz is on about. He seems to have specific players in mind and surely they are playing Senior Club now, so thats a seperate issue.
Ya, thats my point though i suppose. I think he (maybe) coming to the end of this learning curve in his management. Heâll probably take a year off when heâs done and come back and take Armagh and do a great job. Most managers do their time with County Minors/21âs or Senior Club, but he is doing his more or less starting at IC. So iâm probably being harsh with the bluffer comment. But youâre always bluffing a bit when youâre learning.
Not great players, but a fair few very handy players at the same time Farmer.
McGeeney was in charge in '08 Farmer. Surprised Kev hasnât objected to your claim that Cork were easily beaten by Kerry that year.
If you look at their forwards they are actually pretty good:
Doyle (if they played him there)
Kavanagh
Callaghan
E OâFlaherty
Smith
all very capable scorers
Kildareâs toughest task may well be to beat Laois, they could easily be put out there. If they win that I expect them to kick on. They need to start games better though because they canât continue to have to come from behind if they want to win an All-Ireland.
They need a bit more intelligence in their shooting and they need a something extra in midfield. Like Dublin itâs a weak area for them.
To give Kildare their dues (hard and all as it is), they are currently down both Earley (a monumental loss, bigger than Doyle would be imo) and Flynn. But I still believe its mental to play Doyle out there when you could easily throw in a mullocker and let others pick up the breaks. Long may it continue however.
Limerick played them off the pitch in the first half in 09 and should have gone in up 8 points at HT.
McGeeney completely changed their game plan in the 2nd half. They pressed Limerick right back at every opportunity and eventually won the game at a canter. I thought it showed good management skills to adapt his team and get the result.
2006
Offaly team that lost Leinster final knocked them out. Derry finished the jobin Celtic Park, no shame there with regards to Derry at least.
2007
Meath beat them in 1st round in Leinster. Meath then beaten by Dublin in next round.
Bowed out to Louth then in qualifiers at home, not a stellar year for sure.
Sligo beat them one year in the qualifiers in Markewiz Park. I remember because I was on the train home when the team got on at Maynooth heading to Sligo for the match. A lot of them were sleeping for the journey. They didnt look like a team who were up it.
Padraig Nolan was in charge then. He was sitting in the same booth as me and was complaining that they hadnât their own carriage.
They lost to Roscommon as well in the qualifiers. I think that may have been 2003.
I think McGeeney has improved them a great deal, but itâs improvement from a very low base. They havenât won a Leinster in his 4 years in charge and were eliminated by Wicklow and Louth in two of the provincial campaigns so I think heâs been a qualified success.
Iâd actually like to see a full list of their qualifier results because I donât think theyâve beaten anyone that they wouldnât reasonably have been expected to defeat prior to going out to Cork (â08), Tyrone (â09) and Down last year. They won in Derry last year but it was hardly a vintage year for them and it was a good victory against Meath but, like I say, hardly an outstanding feat to beat them.
In short, I donât like them and I believe praise of them is overstated. I think their fitness, power, running style can brush aside weaker teams (both physically and mentally) but I think if theyâre matched in those stakes then their pure skill and quality doesnât stand up to the best. Thatâs why I strongly fancied Dublin to beat them; primarily because (with Doyle in midfield especially) I didnât think they had the class upfront of the two Brogans.
I think they have reasonable players but theyâre suited to overpowering qualifier fodder with the net result of racking up quarter final appearances and the odd semi-final such as last year but no more. I was pretty happy with my conclusion when I saw Ronan Sweeney and PĂĄdraig OâNeill starting on Sunday and I thought the tight scoreline flattered them quite a bit.