Continuing the discussion from The Racism thread:
Let’s have this discussion without referring back to or quoting from the previous topic. We don’t want to recycle the same arguments.
The medical examiner in Atlanta has declared that the shooting of Rayshard Brooks was homicide. Cause of death was two gunshot wounds to his back.
Here is some of the bodycam and dashcam footage of the incident
There’s no evidence of racism. He is treated, it seems, reasonably and fairly until he resists arrest. He’s not dragged out of his car and is given a second chance to drive on. Then falls asleep.
Then what happens is what seems to be the issue in America - too much force is used.
The police over react and use excessive force which seems to be what happens in US. In any other Western country would police shoot and kill a suspect fleeing a drunken driving stop who has resisted arrest.
It’s an overreaction and excessive use of force which seems to happen more in America than elsewhere.
@Rocko, thanks for restarting this thread. The forum obviously needs a thread for this topic, even if you don’t like what everyone has to say about the matter.
If you want my opinion on poor Rayshard Brooks, obviously an unjustified killing, a homicide, but I also think that this is America, an out of control country where life is very cheap. Was the motivation for the killing racism? Very hard to say. The white homeless guy getting murdered by police firing squad that Tassotti posted up in the USA Society in Meltdown thread was a worse incident and that was done to a white guy, so how do you know this happened because Brooks was black? I have no doubt that black people get it worst but they have an all-pervasive problem with police brutality and not valuing human life generally. They’re a horrible shower.
this might be a typo. I doubt they’d pop him in Monaghan.
I remember hearing a story about an AFL player in Oz years ago who got pulled over at a police checkpoint one night. He was loaded. He thinks very hard about what to do next and takes the only rational course of action open to him. He jumps up out out of his car, leaves the key in the ignition and just starts running, running into the night. As fast and as far as he can go. The aussie cops just stand looking at him for a while as he disappears into the distance, then drive his car to the side of the street to let the traffic through. Check his papers and wait for him to come back.
Yeah it was a rhetorical question meaning I don’t see any other Western police force shooting a person dead in that scenario. Or in @Tassotti homeless guy in daylight scenario.
Ah yeah sorry
yeah you’ve most of that story right. Ben Cousins was the AFL player, notorious drug issues even to this day. He ran away from a booze bus, leaving his girfriend in the car. He handed himself in a couple of days after.
https://www.theage.com.au/national/cousins-quizzed-over-booze-bus-incident-20060218-ge1s54.html
https://www.smh.com.au/sport/cousins-fined-over-booze-bus-bolt-20060322-gdn7d8.html
But relevant to the rhetorical question, no, you couldnt see any Western country police force shooting dead a pissed drunk fella barely able to run. If their default is to shoot, then it is a problem. Its as much a gun issue at times as racism issue.
There is no direct evidence of racism. There was no direct evidence of racism in the George Floyd killing either though.
I didn’t want to change the name of the topic from the last one but all examples of excessive force by the cops in the US against black people can fit in here.
Well I know you don’t want to get into it and that’s why you shut down the previous thread but a big part of the racism debate and a bit part of what makes racism so sinister is that its effects sometimes can be so subtle and easy to deny.
I agree but it happens disproportionately to black people.
I was listening to Bakari Sellers the other day talking about how his 15 year old daughter has learned to drive and he has had to instruct her that if she’s pulled over by the cops at night she has to ring 911 and explain that she has been flagged by the police and she’s not fleeing but she wants to move to a well lit public area where she will speak to them.
Imagine having to have that conversation with your 15 year old daughter.
Anyone who thinks there’s anything obvious about the killing wouldn’t make much of a lawyer…based on the video at least
The cop should be charged and prosecuted for the shooting.
It’s open to debate in terms of whether it was racist or not and I think the officer’s motive to discharge was down to his subconscience.
America is a racist shithole with a toxic firearm issue. I just don’t see the fascination some people have with the American dream, I’d never dream of moving there in a million years.
Reasistically, if the cops had let the guy run off what is the most likely outcome? He flees, sleeps rough somewhere for the night and sleeps off the booze before either turning himself in the next day or returning to his home. They have his licence and know where he lives. Granted it is a split second decision but even with the taser he was of no real threat to anyone as we was fleeing the two cops.
It was the worst possible outcome and could easily have been avoided.
Fwiw I don’t see anything racist in that video. It’s certainly excessive force alright but that’s America I guess.
Robbing a tazer would be great craic though. Fleeing the pigs, firing their tazer off into the night, silhouetted by the moonlight. If they’d tazers in Ireland the Monaghan bogmen would be at it every night of the week.
Yeah it’s crazy that it is that way and that an interaction with a cop puts your life in danger especially for a black person.
There is now a fear amongst black people of police which means any interaction is more tense and therefore more dangerous.
I think the video of the police machine gunning the (white) homeless guy or shooting the white guy crawling on the hotel corridor means it more complex than simply racism albeit that racism certainly plays a large role and black people are disproportionately effected.
So basically you want to limit the discussion to only excessive force by the cops against black people, with no commentary allowed as to why it happens.
How very white middle class BLM of you.
Yeah as I said above, it’s hard to know if race was a factor, consciously or subconsciously. But it’s another example of the contempt shown by US police for the value of human life. Kneeling on someone’s neck for close to 9 minutes is more outwardly contemptuous and is easier to associate with a notion of supremacy. This doesn’t look the same, but the consequence was avoidable and the contempt for human life is chillingly present.
It so happens that the human life was black again.
We’ve been over it – Militarization of the police.
There’s two America’s - the wealthy and the rest — People with dark skin will always be suspected of being the latter. While the above video doesnt appear to be racist we cant tell if his skin colour played a part in deciding to pull the trigger.
But when you live in a very violent country with easy access to guns this is what you get — and there’s always gonna be some sort of prejudice despite whatever arguments people put up trying to counter it — especially towards black people who for nearly 400 years were considered sub-human in most of America.
Since the forum has decided it was deffo homicide will we now check on which police officer(s) fired the shots?