[QUOTE=“kerry1891, post: 1065413, member: 1379”]Kerry didn’t even need their greatest all Ireland final goal scorer available to beat the Ulster Champions in the all Ireland final this year!
And the Ulster champions so concerned about a rumour that he might play 5 mins with a busted cruciate some lad was up a tree to spy on Kerry training[/QUOTE]
Cooper has been outscored from play by an Ulster player against Tyrone, Antrim, Armagh, Down, Donegal, Monaghan or Derry in Championship football.
Gooch’s record against Ulster teams in the Championship.
2002 Armagh - scored 0-02* from play . Outscored from play by McDonnell (0-03), Clarke (0-03) and McConville (1-0)
2003 Tyrone - scored 0-01* from play. Can’t find a match report on this one (just a Kerry website breaking down their scorers and not differentiating scores from play) Pretty sure O’Neill came on that day and kicked a few. McMenamin (his man marker also got on the scoresheet.)
2004 Derry - scored 0-03 from play. Outscored from play by Paddy Bradley (0-04) and Enda Muldoon (1-01)
2005 Tyrone - scored 0-03 from play. Outscored from play by Peter The Greatest (1-01)
2006 Armagh - scored 0-02 from play. Outscored from play by Stevie McDonnell (1-05) and Ronan Clarke (0-03)
2007 Monaghan scoreless from play. Outscored from play by Rory Woods (0-03), Ciaran Hanratty (0-02), Stephen Gollogly Tomas Freeman (0-01) and Paul Finlay (0-01),
2008 Monaghan - scored 0-01 from play. Outscored from play by Tomas Freeman (0-02) Gary McQuaid (0-02) and Rory Woods (0-2)
2008 Tyrone - scored 0-2 from play. Outscored from play by Sean Cavanagh (0-05) and Tommy McGuigan (1-0)
2009 Antrim - scoreless from play. Outscored by any Antrim player who scored from play.
2010 Down - scored 0-02 from play. Outscored from play by Mark Poland (1-01) and Benny Coulter (0-03)
2011 - No Ulster opposition 2012 Tyrone - scored 0-04 from play. WAHEYYYY! He finally did it.
2012 Donegal - scored 0-02 from play. Outscored from play by Colm McFadden (0-03)
2013 Cavan - scored 0-01 from play. A draw as four Cavan players matched this tally from play. Cavan are also shit.
2014 - Injured
*These figures are total scores and scores from play are not differentiated.
Only once in 11 games has he outscored an opposition Ulster player from play and that was against a shot Tyrone in 2012.
[QUOTE=“Il Bomber Destro, post: 1065433, member: 2533”]Cooper has been outscored from play by an Ulster player against Tyrone, Armagh, Down, Donegal, Monaghan or Derry in Championship football.
Gooch’s record against Ulster teams in the Championship.
2002 Armagh - scored 0-02* from play . Outscored from play by McDonnell (0-03), Clarke (0-03) and McConville (1-0)
2003 Tyrone - scored 0-01* from play. Can’t find a match report on this one (just a Kerry website breaking down their scorers and not differentiating scores from play) Pretty sure O’Neill came on that day and kicked a few. McMenamin (his man marker also got on the scoresheet.)
2004 Derry - scored 0-03 from play. Outscored from play by Paddy Bradley (0-04) and Enda Muldoon (1-01)
2005 Tyrone - scored 0-03 from play. Outscored from play by Peter The Greatest (1-01)
2006 Armagh - scored 0-02 from play. Outscored from play by Stevie McDonnell (1-05) and Ronan Clarke (0-03)
2007 Monaghan scoreless from play. Outscored from play by Rory Woods (0-03), Ciaran Hanratty (0-02), Stephen Gollogly Tomas Freeman (0-01) and Paul Finlay (0-01),
2008 Monaghan - scored 0-01 from play. Outscored from play by Tomas Freeman (0-02) Gary McQuaid (0-02) and Rory Woods (0-2)
2008 Tyrone - scored 0-2 from play. Outscored from play by Sean Cavanagh (0-05) and Tommy McGuigan (1-0)
2009 - No Ulster opposition
2010 Down - scored 0-02 from play. Outscored from play by Mark Poland (1-01) and Benny Coulter (0-03)
2011 - No Ulster opposition 2012 Tyrone - scored 0-04 from play. WAHEYYYY! He finally did it.
2012 Donegal - scored 0-02 from play. Outscored from play by Colm McFadden (0-03)
2013 - No Ulster opposition
2014 - Injured
*These figures are total scores and scores from play are not differentiated.
Only once in 11 games has he outscored an opposition Ulster player from play and that was against a shot Tyrone in 2012.[/QUOTE]
It is a bit weird and scarey that you have the time and motivation to do that research.
I take it your stats are accurate but I could swear Cooper played championship games against Cavan, Fermanagh and Antrim as well. Think he came on a sub against Antrim as himself and Tomas Se were dropped for that game so I am sure some Saffrom man scored more than him that day!
The game of Gaelic Football is about more than scoring. Thankfully Cooper was much more of a team player than just seeing himself as a scorer. James O’Donoghue has a good final for Kerry this year even though he didnt score and hardly had a kick at goal.
I am unsure what point you have proved but one thing for sure I doubt many would swap Cooper for Rory Woods, Tommy McGuigan and Mark Poland et al.
Didn’t Kerry play Antrim at some stage?
And ignoring his free taking is just hilarious. Not to mention that all bomber is doing is exposing the one dimensional nature of most Ulster teams who largely rely on one or two forwards.
Kerry spread the wealth.
[QUOTE=“caoimhaoin, post: 1065461, member: 273”]Didn’t Kerry play Antrim at some stage?
And ignoring his free taking is just hilarious. Not to mention that all bomber is doing is exposing the one dimensional nature of most Ulster teams who largely rely on one or two forwards.
Kerry spread the wealth.[/QUOTE]
His record against Ulster sides is appalling, there is no dressing up that fact. The stats are there and they prove it.
Antrim?
That’s like me trying to validate Stephen O’Neill as a great player by giving his scoring stats against Wicklow or the like.
I forgot about Cavan though, they’re shit in any case.
@Il Bomber Destro getting a roasting here. Attacking the most naturally gifted forward in 20 years with meaningless stats is akin’ to shouting at a horse-race in a pub. Has The Gooch retired or what?
Not meaningless. It’s entirely relevant to the fact that Cooper struggled badly against Ulster sides, he might have been the most naturally gifted forward but he didn’t have the mentality or all round ability to come up trumps against Ulster teams.
He’s not in Stevie McDonnell’s league. That’s a fact.
[QUOTE=“Il Bomber Destro, post: 1065464, member: 2533”]His record against Ulster sides is appalling, there is no dressing up that fact. The stats are there and they prove it.
Antrim?
That’s like me trying to validate Stephen O’Neill as a great player by giving his scoring stats against Wicklow or the like.
I forgot about Cavan though, they’re shit in any case.[/QUOTE]
how can you write off games v Antrim, Fermanagh and Cavan cos you think they are shite? and then elsewhere in this thread and other threads blabber on about Kerry playing shit teams in Munster to get a bye to QF and be on about how tough Ulster is! then come along when it suits your argument to say several counties in Ulster are shite.
Kerry beat Cavan in the senior QF in 2013 in 2nd gear. Cavan is a county with massive tradition and a heap of Ulster 21s won recently and now all of a sudden a win against them doesn’t count
He’s not in Stevie McDonnell’s league. That’s a fact.[/QUOTE]
One thing Colm Cooper doesn’t have on his resume which Stevie McDonnell does. - Cooper never fucked up a gilt edged goal scoring chance in the closing minutes of an All Ireland Final (that was the winning and losing of the final) the way McDonnell did in the 2003 All Ireland Final.
[QUOTE=“kerry1891, post: 1065471, member: 1379”]how can you write off games v Antrim, Fermanagh and Cavan cos you think they are shite? and then elsewhere in this thread and other threads blabber on about Kerry playing shit teams in Munster to get a bye to QF and be on about how tough Ulster is! then come along when it suits your argument to say several counties in Ulster are shite.
Kerry beat Cavan in the senior QF in 2013 in 2nd gear. Cavan is a county with massive tradition and a heap of Ulster 21s won recently and now all of a sudden a win against them doesn’t count[/QUOTE]
Ulster is tough, you should know that. Kerry have spent the majority of the last decade strolling past everyone in the other three provinces only to come undone against a multitude of Ulster sides. Monaghan should have added their names to that list in 2007 as well. Just give dues where they are due and admit Kerry would have been nowhere near as successful in this era as they were if they had to come through what the Ulster counties had to, that the Ulster championship is out on its own as the best and that Kerry have a massive advantage coming from Munster.
You are being terribly ungracious by not doing so. I want justified acknowledgement for Ulster football.
[QUOTE=“Il Bomber Destro, post: 1065464, member: 2533”]His record against Ulster sides is appalling, there is no dressing up that fact. The stats are there and they prove it.
Antrim?
That’s like me trying to validate Stephen O’Neill as a great player by giving his scoring stats against Wicklow or the like.
I forgot about Cavan though, they’re shit in any case.[/QUOTE]
You use stats for ulster teams yet you leave out a number of them that inconveniently would improve his record.
I would say you couldn’t make it up, but you seem to be quite willing to do that.
[QUOTE=“caoimhaoin, post: 1065480, member: 273”]You use stats for ulster teams yet you leave out a number of them that inconveniently would improve his record.
I would say you couldn’t make it up, but you seem to be quite willing to do that.[/QUOTE]
You show me the Championship games that would improve his stats and the fact that you would be bringing a team like Antrim into the equation shows how low you are scraping the barrel.
I’ll tell you what, if every county in Ulster was the standard of Antrim I’d have no problem slating the province. The fact is that it’s not, Antrim are the anomaly. Now pay some fucking respect, you ingrate.
[QUOTE=“Il Bomber Destro, post: 1065478, member: 2533”]Ulster is tough, you should know that. Kerry have spent the majority of the last decade strolling past everyone in the other three provinces only to come undone against a multitude of Ulster sides. Monaghan should have added their names to that list in 2007 as well. Just give dues where they are due and admit Kerry would have been nowhere near as successful in this era as they were if they had to come through what the Ulster counties had to, that the Ulster championship is out on its own as the best and that Kerry have a massive advantage coming from Munster.
You are being terribly ungracious by not doing so. I want justified acknowledgement for Ulster football.[/QUOTE]
Kerry people have the height of respect for Ulster football dating right back to the 1940S
In fact they are probably more knowledgable, balanced and respectful of it than you are
In your over exhuburance to put Colm Cooper down you have yourself dismissed a third of the counties in Ulster football
Games against them not counting cos they are shite according to you and in the next post you are asking me to heap praise on Ulster
You cant be saying how ultra competitive Ulster is and then dismissing games against counties from Ulster. No one has insulted the teams in the province more than you in this thread which is fairly bizarre
Well done Colm Cooper!
Down are only ulster county we haven’t beaten last few years btw.
[QUOTE=“kerry1891, post: 1065486, member: 1379”]Kerry people have the height of respect for Ulster football dating right back to the 1940S
In fact they are probably more knowledgable, balanced and respectful of it than you are
In your over exhuburance to put Colm Cooper down you have yourself dismissed a third of the counties in Ulster football
Games against them not counting cos they are shite according to you and in the next post you are asking me to heap praise on Ulster
You cant be saying how ultra competitive Ulster is and than dismissing games against counties from Ulster. No one has insulted the teams in the province more than you in this thread which is fairly bizarre
Well done Colm Cooper!
Down are only ulster county we haven’t beaten last few years btw.[/QUOTE]
Yes and in the last 13 seasons Kerry have lost 8 times in the knockout stages of Championship football, 6 of those times have been against Ulster sides. Only Dublin have managed this as well.
I’m dismissing them as they are poor sides, in Fermanagh’s case a more recent phenomenon. I’m saying Ulster is ultra competitive as there are 6 really strong counties in it, what have you in the other provinces? Half that at the max. I don’t get why you’re debating this. You surely must see the outlier when you compare Cooper’s performances against the Ulster sides than against the likes of Mayo, Cork, Dublin etc etc. He has always struggled against Ulster teams in relative terms to what he would do against aforementioned teams and that’s always going to be an asterisk against him. That’s not up for debate, that’s a fact.
Do you honestly think Kerry don’t have a huge advantage coming through Munster in comparison to the Ulster counties?
Do you honestly think Kerry would have been as successful as they were if they were playing in the Ulster Championship in that time period?
Do you honestly think Gooch and Kerry haven’t struggled badly against Ulster sides in comparison to how they could steamroll other teams from other provinces?
[QUOTE=“Il Bomber Destro, post: 1065470, member: 2533”]Not meaningless. It’s entirely relevant to the fact that Cooper struggled badly against Ulster sides, he might have been the most naturally gifted forward but he didn’t have the mentality or all round ability to come up trumps against Ulster teams.
He’s not in Stevie McDonnell’s league. That’s a fact.[/QUOTE]
You are a big stevie McDonnell fan it must be said. How did you rate Ger Houlahan. I recall him as a very good finisher. all Ireland came a year or two too late for him
McDonnell could do it all, kick points off either foot, supreme fielder, mobile, strong as an ox. You could kick any type of ball into him and he could win it, best goalscorer I’ve seen as well.
Houlahan was a great player but I don’t know if I’d put him ahead of any of McDonnell, Marsden, Clarke or McConville.
