Rugby Players Rape Trial

Do.you think olding is innocent?

I am so so so sorry.

1 Like

Yeah your natural process is to cling to your beliefs so when you run into something that contradicts a belief especially one you value then you are programmed to reject it automatically.

You won’t overcome your biases. Best you could do with a lot of work and training and developing tools would be develop some awareness of them but it is taxing to do it and time consuming to have to think the opposite of every thing you think.

So on this thread as an example it would be for people to think of the opposite to what they are thinking about guilt and innocence and genuinely work on how that opposite is true and develop arguments around it. It would be very hard to allow that go on in your head.

I think that there’s truth from both him and the complainant.

I think that he did go in to the room looking for action, which in itself is creepy behaviour.I believe Jackson was having sex with her when he entered the room, I don’t believe she beckoned him while straddling Jackson/giving Jackson a bj. Sounds ridiculous.

Now, given Olding wasn’t there forwas the initial interaction between Jackson and the girl, I do think he could have “misjudged” the situation.

If the girl was in submission mode, he may have taken this as she didn’t “mind” and was cool with the sitch. I think the girl may have felt overwhelmed and like she had no choice…and rape is a lack of freedom of choice in this situation. Quite a difficult one to call… he’s a pig for sure, and I believe she is telling the truth but I wouldn’t be sure if I could convict in his case. Evidence just not there.

Dara Florence’s evidence says she heard aggressive male noises and a female moaning… not distressed but she didn’t think sexual either… she says if she thought sexual, she wouldn’t have opened the door. Could it have possibly been the complainant choking/gagging? Who knows.

The problem facing Olding is that he says he got consent by the girl beckoning him in… if jury belive his version, it goes against Jackson… so that would mean they don’t believe Jackson. If they don’t believe Olding, it means he didn’t establish consent… and therefore would be guilty? Ah Jaysus my head :see_no_evil::see_no_evil:

Try to do it all the time.

But do I achieve it? No way. I would suggest it’s largely in hindsight I acknowledge it and try to be more aware .

Ya the Japanese way of if it ain’t working try the opposite.

Must be close enough in thought process.

As I said above, recalibration and reflection is hugely helpful.

You cannot over think it either

I’m fairly sure the study that the whole implicit (unconscious) bias school of thought has been based on has turned out to be deeply flawed. The woman who discovered it has been torn to shreds recently for flaws in her methodology in academic circles. But lo and behold unconscious bias is now considered a real thing. Combating it is now a massive industry.

Very open and honest post. Having read it, yes it’s usually in hindsight, but not always. When I find myself feeling strongly, I hold back and question where that strength in the belief comes from, when I analyse it, sometimes I find that the root cause was bias, and then the analysis of that bias would be an entirely different story

1 Like

I constantly have to remind myself, ‘when you’re right, you’re right’.

1 Like

@KOS1987

He’s just winding us up… he doesn’t mean it. There’s an awful weakness in your typical man to make themselves feel superior.

I’m far from typical baby

Another typical man comment… :joy:

Typical woman, always making generalisations!!

This could go on and on… like a typical TFKer.

We don’t know if he’s a male

Actually true. @glenshane can you confirm gender?

1 Like

They don’t know how to measure it and they don’t know how much it affects behaviour. Yeah a whole industry aimed at making people make better decisions by training around bias is hokum but companies have learning and development and diversity dollars to spend

1 Like

The George Costanza method

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=cKUvKE3bQlY

1 Like

50/50 obviously