Russia Vs Ukraine (Part 2) - Neocons Strike Back

[carryharry]

Hi chief

No response to my post / question yet?

[glenshane]

Your question is a funny one harry. You’re saying that Ukraine wouldn’t have a nazi problem if it wasn’t for putin meddling in 2014…i suppose that’s kinda what jacques baud is saying- most of the military defected in 2014 so kiev recruited far right nationalists to fill the void
Maybe you’re right- nazis are only a problem if you’ve a problem with nazis?
Is that the gist of it?

[carryharry]

Did you read the article?

Russia Vs Ukraine (Part 2) - Neocons Strike Back

This seems a well researched article from 2014 and arguably stacks up to the presumptions made. Opinion? This line stands out too and seems to be proven correct tbf. “ Russian journalist Yulia Latynina views Putin’s tactics in Crimea and eastern Ukraine as a new military strategy, in which the government controls and distorts information to cast Russia and the pro-Russian separatists as the victims. She argues that this “is far more important than achieving a military victory. To come out t…

I just think it’s too easy to say the West have been the silent aggressors here without also looking at Putins motives & actions before & after 2012 in Ukraine.

I don’t doubt that America for example hasn’t under either Republican or Democratic rule been looking to take advantage of leaning on Russia.

But, from I can’t fathom it’s simply a crusade by Putin to halt Nazi / Far Right groups either.

It all leans imo into a very powerful man biding his time to make a move fully in the belief that his actions would not be called out & countered.

[glenshane]

Its a load of bollox ger…the usual recreating the soviet union, peter, catherine tsarist , dugin whatever salad.
Shur he refused to recognise the peoples republics for the best part of a decade, he was well mugged off when he signed up to them minsk accords.

[carryharry]

@glenshane

Its a load of bollox ger…the usual recreating the soviet union

Did you read it?

Are you saying that Putin did not make those claims about Ukraine being “ Novorossiya “ ?

Surprisingly enough the regions of Luhansk, Donetsk Kherson and Zaporizhzhia ended up back under Russian control after the Special Military Operation.

You’re a gas man

[glenshane]

Sure what of it? Would they not be better off under russian control if Ukraine insists on bombing civilians ? Some degree of independence or autonomy would have been preferable you’d think?

[Cheasty]

@glenshane

Well worth a listen

You’d be better off having tinnitus.

[carryharry]

I have asked you numerous times to offer evidence of Civilians being bombed pre 2012 in these regions.

Can you offer any evidence?

My point is, Putin brewed up tensions in the regions once his puppet president fled.
He provided ammunition & training.

The areas involved were always Russian leaning & speaking but were living peacefully under the Ukraine Flag before Putin incited feuds and destabilised the regions.

What minorities in the Ukrainian army have done since can’t be absolved of being brought to justice either but it can’t be brushed under the carpet either how the situation was fuelled.

[glenshane]

I cant offer any evidence for some irrelevant fictional straw man of a nonsensical argument. You’re correct so

[Cheasty]

@glenshane

I cant offer any evidence for some irrelevant fictional straw man of a nonsensical argument.

A very neat summing up of your entire contribution to this thread.

[carryharry]

Straw man? Disappointing response and I’m a little insulted tbh.

You’re better than that.

It’s a fair question & it’s important you’d have an answer considering you are laying blame solely on Ukraine for destabilising regions in their own country thus by your logic inviting invasion.

[glenshane]

@carryharry

considering you are laying blame solely on Ukraine for destabilising regions in their own country

I’d blame the americans as much as the Ukrainians. The Ukrainian people mostly wanted peace-they elected zelensky because he promised peace. Putin wanted peace when he signed the peace accords. The separatists mostly kept their ceasefires pre 2022. Unfortunately the nazis and oligarchs within Ukraine, the americans, germans, dutch and british all did their best to keep the civil war going

You’ve a very shallow and biased understanding of the situation and it’s unreasonable to expect me to keep educating you when you’re invested in ignorance.

[Cheasty]

@glenshane

I’d blame the americans as much as the Ukrainians. The Ukrainian people mostly wanted peace-they elected zelensky because he promised peace. Putin wanted peace when he signed the peace accords.

You blame Nicola Gallagher not Rory Gallagher so it’s no surprise you’d write the above.

[carryharry]

Interesting read this,

Banderites%2520vs%2520New%2520Russia%2520The%2520Battlefield%2520of%2520History%2520in%2520the%2520Ukraine%2520Conflict.pdf

[TreatyStones]

The Ukrainians say they have only committed 3 of the 12 newly formed, western equipped and trained brigades to the offensive so far. .

They are still hugely outnumbered though and the Russians have spent months preparing strong defensive lines

[Tassotti]

The Russians gave wiped them out.

[glenshane]

It won’t be long now before the US sees Russia using chemical weapons, or similar

[carryharry]

They won’t do that, they are all the one according to Mr Putin

[glenshane]

Of course…that doesn’t mean the americans won’t see them do it …
(The Ukrainians must be the first government to use depleted uranium in their own country. What’s that about?)

[carryharry]

Reuse etc