Russia Vs Ukraine (Part 2) - Neocons Strike Back

He might be, but he’s far more versed on these matters than most…

You’d only listen to him if you’re an insomniac

You said Yanukovych was “overthrown”. He wasn’t. He was democratically removed from office after the turned his guns on peaceful protestors.

That’s called democracy.

You only believe in “democracy” as a slogan to defend a murderer.

Yanokovych lied about what he was too. He was a Russian puppet. He was never a democrat, as he proved in 2004 when the elections were initially rigged in favour of him. Presumably you believe those rigged elections were “democracy” too.

You don’t know the meaning of the word democracy and you don;t know the meaning of any of the other words you use as slogans.

You’re a pound shop Ewan.

His knee jerk response has always been anti Americanism. He couldn’t be taken seriously here.

he was democratically elected in 2010.

Observers from the Organisation for Security and Co-operation in Europe (OSCE) said there were no indications of serious fraud and described the vote as an “impressive display” of democracy. “For everyone in Ukraine this election was a victory,” João Soares, president of the OSCE’s parliamentary assembly, said.

The OSCE hinted that Tymoshenko should admit defeat, noting that in any election there are “winners and losers. It is now time for the country’s political leaders to listen to the people’s verdict and make sure the transition of power is peaceful and constructive,” Soares suggested.

How William Hague Deceived the House of Commons on Ukraine | HuffPost UK Politics - here’s why it wasn’t democratic

The government buildings were overthrown by far right protestors, and this is where it gets silly, we have far left headbangers defending this, without irony . Who took control. Democracy had to wait until America decided who they wanted in.

The non elected government did exactly what the previous government did to protestors in the East, they turned their guns on them

That’s all verifiable evidence of what went on at the time. From reputable, non conservative sources.

You can’t whitewash the truth. You want one side of debate shut down, you want those opposed to you wiped out. You’re a pound shop Putin

You’ll scream but, but, but and call me names and deflect, but that’s what happened in 2014, you or I can do fuck all about it now

Nothing said there is a lie

Is that where we’re at now?

You’re clutching at straws. I never said Yanukovych didn’t win the 2010 election. But he has never been a democrat.

You claim he was illegitimately “overthrown”.

He wasn’t. He was democratically removed. You’re yet again trying to argue against reality, as you have been since your return to the forum.

In other words. you’re an inveterate liar.

Seumas Milne is a pro-Russia propagandist and not to be taken remotely seriously.

1991? Putin certainly wants to be.

They didn’t want their land bought by foreigners, no wonder they are seething with the Russians taking it so

he wasn’t democratically removed. He was run from offices at gun point and democratic procedures weren’t followed. Huff Post is another very liberal site.

the incumbent leaders then turned their guns on protesters in Donetsk, the very same thing the previous government did.

Is anything Milne said untrue? There is evidence for all of it, it wasn’t propoganda.

You probably should apologise for calling me a liar and a defender of murder.

Are you keeping a headcount- how many have been killed by russians vs how many have been killed by Ukrainians? It would certainly add weight to your school gate analysis

Earth to Esteban. He was democratically removed. 328-0.

I take back what I said about you last night. You are a fool. A fool who diarrhoeas Putinist propaganda all over yourself and everybody else.

And an excuse maker for genocidists.

You’re a liar and an apologist for genocidists. These are facts.

And you use the exact same tactics as the far right in Ireland in deliberately whipping up hatred for refugees.

You’re a scumbag, Esteban.

that was unconsitutional. they didn’t follow the constituational procedure for impeachement That’s what democracy is right?

Furthermore, the bill wasn’t even supported by three-quarters of Rada members as required by Article 111 - it was supported by 328 members, when it required 338 (since the Rada has 450 members).

So you’re anti democratic too, as well as a liar

A poundshop despot is all you are. Democracy on your terms

You’ll attack that source, and me probably and ignore the evidence starting you in the face

Keep shouting nonsense. Everybody with a functioning brain and a shred of morality in them can see through you.

you lied and insulted, then lied some more and insulted another bit without countering one single piece of information put before you, bar shouting insults at the sources, all liberal sources, all reputable.

Anyone with a functioning brain can see what you are.

This is all historical fact, pointing it out isn’t excusing anyone for anything or propoganda, what you’re attempting to do is.

You’re defending a mass murderer with a straight face. You say he represents “democracy”.

Yeah, just like the apartheid regime who oversaw Sharpeville and the Raj who oversaw Amritsar and the Mexican president who ordered protestors be slaughtered in 1968 represented “democracy”.

You jumped the shark a long, long time ago.

God forbid.

I am pointing out, accurately, what happened in 2014. 8 years ago. You haven’t countered any of it.

None of that gives Putin the right to do what he is doing now. Absolutely not and he will be punished to the full extent of international law, I’m sure Russia will suffer when this is done, because of him. As is right.

That doesn’t make what happened in 2014 disappear. It happened. It isn’t a justification by me for anything, it just is what happened. To say otherwise isn’t as you say, reality. That is the reality. You’re actually sticking your fingers in your ears here. It’s bizarre.

that’s about your level alright