Sinn Fein - Populism and Partionism

[artfoley]

@tallback

@artfoley

@tallback

That eviction in town from a couple of years ago seems like an odd one to latch onto? Am I right in saying that it was protestors occupying a building illegally and a court order was granted to evict as opposed to a genuine case of an illegal eviction or of a family being made homeless?

Commenting on the arrest of the five protestors, Green Party Justice spokesperson, Roderic O’Gorman said that it was alarming to see that a protest seeking to highlight the serious housing crisis in the city was policed in this manner.

It is unsettling to see gardaí policing a protest in balaclavas.

“It sets out a highly confrontational tone and is the exact opposite of the openness and transparency in policing that we should expect from An Garda Síochána. The gardaí must examine the tactics that have been employed here,” O’Gorman said

the blueshirts were so outraged by ogorman’s mask slipping they went into government with him

So to confirm - the issue was that they wore balaclavas and everything else was ok?

there’s also the alleged assaults that the gardai observed and didnt act on

[Cheasty]

@Bandage

I saw MLMD tweeting “happy birthday” to Cosgrave recently & I gritted my teeth. You’d think they’d learn their lessons from their flirtation with News Gemma. While there’d hardly be any formal (even informal?) alliance between The Ditch & SF, I reckon it’s just Cosgrave & his pals looking to wreck the place for his own ends so it suits them to paint “the establishment” in a poor light & by default go easier on SF. But surely media adviser types in SF should be warning their political representatives not to be engaging with Cosgrave & his acolytes.

My belief is that SF have looked at the techniques of far right American propagandists and imported them here for a “left” audience. SF’s online support is all about a threatening sort of “humour” and memes etc. Cosgrave and “the Ditch” fulfil a sort of Daily Wire type role. The Daily Wire is a “news” (I use the term loosely) website run by US far right influencer Ben Shapiro.

The US far right worked out that of they could just set up their own media and endlessly demonise the traditional major TV networks and papers of record, they could both bypass these organs entirely yet also compromise them into giving “false balance”.

I can’t prove exactly what connection exists between Cosgrave and SF but I’d be flabbergasted if there isn’t serious back channel connections to a high level.

[tallback]

@artfoley

@tallback

@artfoley

@tallback

That eviction in town from a couple of years ago seems like an odd one to latch onto? Am I right in saying that it was protestors occupying a building illegally and a court order was granted to evict as opposed to a genuine case of an illegal eviction or of a family being made homeless?

Commenting on the arrest of the five protestors, Green Party Justice spokesperson, Roderic O’Gorman said that it was alarming to see that a protest seeking to highlight the serious housing crisis in the city was policed in this manner.

It is unsettling to see gardaí policing a protest in balaclavas.

“It sets out a highly confrontational tone and is the exact opposite of the openness and transparency in policing that we should expect from An Garda Síochána. The gardaí must examine the tactics that have been employed here,” O’Gorman said

the blueshirts were so outraged by ogorman’s mask slipping they went into government with him

So to confirm - the issue was that they wore balaclavas and everything else was ok?

there’s also the alleged assaults that the gardai observed and didnt act on

Meh. Presumably these are “alleged” by the self-same political group who were trying to make a political point by occupying the building and then looking to create a confrontation by getting thrown out to further their political agenda.

And you’re saying that they (and you it would seem) are highly outraged that the gardai were at the property for some odd reason but also outraged that the gardai didn’t do enough when they were there?

I’ll take a large pinch of salt on that one if that’s ok …

[Bandage]

Interesting.

Do you think SF are that savvy & co-ordinated from a strategic point of view? They still seem pretty useless & incoherent a lot of the time, albeit the government parties aren’t good at this online lark at all.

[artfoley]

@tallback

Meh. Presumably these are “alleged” by the self-same political group who were trying to make a political point by occupying the building and then looking to create a confrontation by getting thrown out to further their political agenda.

And you’re saying that they (and you it would seem) are highly outraged that the gardai were at the property for some odd reason but also outraged that the gardai didn’t do enough when they were there?

I’ll take a large pinch of salt on that one if that’s ok …

what a strange post. the gardai are there to enforce the law for all citizens, not just for the rachmann class

[tallback]

@artfoley

@tallback

Meh. Presumably these are “alleged” by the self-same political group who were trying to make a political point by occupying the building and then looking to create a confrontation by getting thrown out to further their political agenda.

And you’re saying that they (and you it would seem) are highly outraged that the gardai were at the property for some odd reason but also outraged that the gardai didn’t do enough when they were there?

I’ll take a large pinch of salt on that one if that’s ok …

what a strange post. the gardai are there to enforce the law for all citizens, not just for the rachmann class

I wholeheartedly agree.

Where I cast doubt is to the “alleged” assaults.

[glasagusban]

So if you’re assaulted while trying to make a political point it’s ok because you brought it on yourself?

[tallback]

@glasagusban

So if you’re assaulted while trying to make a political point it’s ok because you brought it on yourself?

Good effort at word twisting but no.

[artfoley]

@tallback

@glasagusban

So if you’re assaulted while trying to make a political point it’s ok because you brought it on yourself?

Good effort at word twisting but no.

ill fix that for glas

So if you’re assaulted while trying to make a political point that tallback or the blueshirts disagree with it’s ok because you brought it on yourself?

[glasagusban]

What were you trying to say so? You seem to be saying that because people engineered a situation they don’t merit the protection of gardai.

[tallback]

@glasagusban

What were you trying to say so? You seem to be saying that because people engineered a situation they don’t merit the protection of gardai.

I was casting doubt on whether assaults (or other crimes) were ignored by the guards as part of some shadowy conspiracy as Art was insinuating above.

Did you have an issue that the law was being broken at that protest?

[glasagusban]

You appear to have dismissed alleged assaults because you don’t like the protest group.

[tallback]

@glasagusban

You appear to have dismissed alleged assaults because you don’t like the protest group.

I said I’d take allegations of them with a pinch of salt. I don’t know for sure what happened. To be fair, even Art said they were alleged. What is undeniable though is that it is in the political interest of the protesting group to claim or exaggerate claims of assault.

Usually at those things there is a shit load of cameras (one of the reasons the Guards said that they wore balaclavas) so I presume any assaults were captured on camera, reported to the Guards and followed up? Did any charges result can you remember? (I can’t)

[tallback]

I think I’ve answered your questions fairly openly.

Here’s mine - do you have an issue that the law was being broken at that protest?

[glasagusban]

I don really recall much about it to be honest, I just thought your slant on alleged assaults seemed a bit odd.

[tallback]

@glasagusban

I don really recall much about it to be honest, I just thought your slant on alleged assaults seemed a bit odd.

I had forgotten about it too but saw something this morning about it and I just googled it there. Interestingly, there were arrests on the day but it was protestors arrested.

Masked men secure Dublin property after housing activists removed

Let me remind you - Protesters occupied the building illegally and a court order was secured ordering them to leave. They ignored the court order and what appear to be private security had to evict them from the building. Garda attended to keep the peace.

The protest was illegal. There are many ways to legally and peacefully in the state as we see every week with protests outside the Dail, through Dublin etc but this was not one of those.

Now that I’ve reminded you that the protest was illegal - do you agree that it shouldn’t have taken place and that they should have chosen a legal way to protest?

[Cheasty]

@Bandage

Interesting.

Do you think SF are that savvy & co-ordinated from a strategic point of view? They still seem pretty useless & incoherent a lot of the time, albeit the government parties aren’t good at this online lark at all.

Sinn Fein definitely have a good few loose cannons in the parliamentary party. There’s a sort of Matt Le Tissier vibe off some of them. Martin Browne in Tipperary, Reada Cronin in Kildare, Violet Anne Wynne and Carol Nolan before they left. Then again, Fine Gael have their share of Lozza Foxes in their ranks.

I think their strategy is savvy, and most of the people putting it into practice it are savvy, especially their online meme outlets like Dr. Harold and Irish Simpsons Fans Page or whatever it’s called, yer man Tadhg Hickey, that Estebantz chap etc., and probably other people I haven’t even heard of.

They have a weird sort of cultural crossover type thing going on, a bit like New Labour did around 1995, when Britpop became a sort of cultural vehicle for Blairism, though the people endorsing them would be less well known because of the internet-driven fragmentation of culture. The likes of Damien Dempsey, the Rubberbandits, Emmett Kirwan, I think would be seen as broadly pro-SF. There’s a rap group called Kneecap who are definitely pro-SF, one of them made a memorable quote on Channel 4 News a year or two back: “I have much more in common with someone of my age living in the Shankill than with Sebastian Cockworth in Blackrock”. The O’Broin tweet was an example of them making a conscious play towards people of an artistic bent, sort of “outsider art”, I think @binkybarnes mentioned Banksy. That’s it.

Sinn Fein’s brand appeal to the young is “edginess”. That’s the same brand appeal Trump went with, though in a different way. Sinn Fein’s edginess is more Frankie Boyle, Trump’s edginess was more the Daily Stormer. SF mix that “edgy” brand with “housing”, For older people, the brand is nationalism, pensions, public services, and a sort “everybody else is corrupt, we are pure” Viktor Orban style offering.

I think Cosgrave is very good at generating publicity for himself - that’s what he is - a publicist - a glorified party planner - but he’s a loose cannon liable to say incredibly stupid stuff. Then again, as long as he’s still sort of operating in the shadows, that probably doesn’t matter that much.

I think what Sinn Fein are really gearing up for is what sort of strategy they’ll employ if they get into power. It’ll be a Viktor Orban strategy. Blame everybody else and be loud as hell about it. Use all the levers of power available to them to crank up pressure on institutions, public or private, they see as being in opposition to them. Use frivolous SLAPPS lawsuits, I think we’re already seeing that with the Mary Lou McDonald defamation case against RTE. Mick Wallace and Clare Daly also do this.

But SF may not necessarily get into power next time. Leo Varadkar is a populist at heart, and I don’t mean that in a complimentary sense. Fine Gael have now made a conscious decision to go for the anti-trans strategy. This is a “look over there” strategy that the right-wing internationally believe they can make serious capital from and in the process divide their opposition. FG believe that SF are weak here and they aren’t necessarily wrong in that belief. You’ll see this continue to be pushed front and centre by desperate right wing parties. The Tories will go big on it. It’s also a highly dangerous strategy which threatens to unleash extreme malign forces on society, this is a certainty when you target a small marginalised group within society as the problem. It never, ever, ever leads anywhere good.

The next election will be a battle between two groups of populists. You can sort of see the road to how liberal democracies get eroded beginning to lay out in front of us.

[Tim_Riggins]

Yes it’s Paddy Cosgrave that tips the balance here.

[Tim_Riggins]

They don’t recognise the name of the country, sure. It’s all part of the fairytale they told their hardcore mentallers. That lad from 1916 who “handed over” custodianship of the Republic to the Army Council that they claim lineage of.

[Thomas_Brady]

The future of Ireland hedges on a national debate about transgenderism… Of which there are about 5k transgender people in the country