So, who's striking today? Which Side are You On

[The_Most_Infamous]

Over estimated…I’d say the actual average is closer to 30k

Higher earners are substantially adding to that.

[tallback]

@Juhniallio

@tallback

@Juhniallio

@Tim_Riggins

Why should a long serving semi state worker be treated better than a long serving private sector worker?

Maybe the public service/semi state sector will now finally realise the difference between a pay cut and losing ones job.

Because if anybody should give decent conditions to workers it should be the government. Because they should set the standard for other companies to follow. Because if they don’t nobody else will even come close. Because all the old gold plated pension nonsense is long gone and anyone who joined the public service within the last 15 years has no chance of the sort of pay that you suggest is commonplace. Because working for the state is serving the country in whatever small capacity it is and your job serves the people of the country.
Every example you give is based on what’s in it for me and why should these cunts get more than me/private sector.

The “doing it for the country” guff doesn’t wash when there’s a clear premium being paid for doing their patriotic duty. It’s some sacrifice for the flag that the BE workers are making each day.

I don’t think it’s a why should the workers get more than me thing either - My issue is more that they want me to pay for it and while I’m happy to pay substantial taxes I think it could be spent significantly better. The same unions with the begging bowl out now for extra dish will be the ones whining about lack of services or investment.

If you want to help workers then help all workers - not a select few.

Don’t be so dramatic. It’s not a sacrifice for the flag. It’s a tiny part of the important thing of making a decent functioning country, which Ireland is. Obviously there are examples of people being overpaid in the public sector. But it sure as fuck doesn’t happen for new recruits or anyone who isn’t in the top 5‰. Pretty similar to the private sector.
Anybody on anything close to the average industrial wage is fucked in Ireland if they ever want to have a gaff and kids which are fairly normal wishes. Subsistence living followed by a retirement wage a fact above the state pension is the future for most low paid private employees.
In the absence of any political will to create better cost of living there remains only one option for unions. To fight like fuck for every scrap they can, because sure as fuck it’ll be stripped from them if they don’t.
I’d love to see better labour laws introduced. Ged Nash managed to get the minimum wage raised twice despite us being in the shit and managed to improve some workers conditions but that’s a rear guard battle against companies who will continually seek to drive down costs. Tesco and Dunnes are both massive employers of low-priced staff and are actively trying to strip these workers of more rights in the interests of their profits. 95% of private companies do the same. So again, if the government doesn’t set the example who the fuck will?

Government can set laws and enforce them - it doesn’t need to set examples.

If our taxes were actually spent efficiently then the average worker could get more services. I don’t think that’s an unreasonable line at all - I’m not arguing for less gov spending just fairer and more efficient gov spending.

[gilgamboa]

@Juhniallio

Anybody on anything close to the average industrial wage is fucked in Ireland if they ever want to have a gaff and kids which are fairly normal wishes.

In Dublin they are. Plenty people with houses and kids in towns in rural Ireland I’d imagine

[The_Most_Infamous]

Problem is, how many jobs are there outside the big population centers…it’s all relative.

[Juhniallio]

@tallback

@Juhniallio

@tallback

@Juhniallio

@Tim_Riggins

Why should a long serving semi state worker be treated better than a long serving private sector worker?

Maybe the public service/semi state sector will now finally realise the difference between a pay cut and losing ones job.

Because if anybody should give decent conditions to workers it should be the government. Because they should set the standard for other companies to follow. Because if they don’t nobody else will even come close. Because all the old gold plated pension nonsense is long gone and anyone who joined the public service within the last 15 years has no chance of the sort of pay that you suggest is commonplace. Because working for the state is serving the country in whatever small capacity it is and your job serves the people of the country.
Every example you give is based on what’s in it for me and why should these cunts get more than me/private sector.

The “doing it for the country” guff doesn’t wash when there’s a clear premium being paid for doing their patriotic duty. It’s some sacrifice for the flag that the BE workers are making each day.

I don’t think it’s a why should the workers get more than me thing either - My issue is more that they want me to pay for it and while I’m happy to pay substantial taxes I think it could be spent significantly better. The same unions with the begging bowl out now for extra dish will be the ones whining about lack of services or investment.

If you want to help workers then help all workers - not a select few.

Don’t be so dramatic. It’s not a sacrifice for the flag. It’s a tiny part of the important thing of making a decent functioning country, which Ireland is. Obviously there are examples of people being overpaid in the public sector. But it sure as fuck doesn’t happen for new recruits or anyone who isn’t in the top 5‰. Pretty similar to the private sector.
Anybody on anything close to the average industrial wage is fucked in Ireland if they ever want to have a gaff and kids which are fairly normal wishes. Subsistence living followed by a retirement wage a fact above the state pension is the future for most low paid private employees.
In the absence of any political will to create better cost of living there remains only one option for unions. To fight like fuck for every scrap they can, because sure as fuck it’ll be stripped from them if they don’t.
I’d love to see better labour laws introduced. Ged Nash managed to get the minimum wage raised twice despite us being in the shit and managed to improve some workers conditions but that’s a rear guard battle against companies who will continually seek to drive down costs. Tesco and Dunnes are both massive employers of low-priced staff and are actively trying to strip these workers of more rights in the interests of their profits. 95% of private companies do the same. So again, if the government doesn’t set the example who the fuck will?

Government can set laws and enforce them - it doesn’t need to set examples.

If our taxes were actually spent efficiently then the average worker could get more services. I don’t think that’s an unreasonable line at all - I’m not arguing for less gov spending just fairer and more efficient gov spending.

I agree with the second bit but not with the first.

[Juhniallio]

@gilgamboa

@Juhniallio

Anybody on anything close to the average industrial wage is fucked in Ireland if they ever want to have a gaff and kids which are fairly normal wishes.

In Dublin they are. Plenty people with houses and kids in towns in rural Ireland I’d imagine

Fair enough. But the percentage of wages spent on rent/mortgage is still off the charts. Leeching cash fro. People’s lives and possible tax take.

[Tim_Riggins]

Well done for reading the annual report. I love how you neglect to mention that they also point out the increased competition and pay increases which caused the loss. Depreciation might have gone up, but so did wages. Where is the 7m pal, group depreciation charges (PSO and commercial) are up by just 2.5m pet the annual report?

Depreciation is a fact of life when running a commercial service though and competing with people doing the same. Bus Eireann has failed to compete and is simply losing, its competition.

In my opinion there are two choice;

• make redundant a large proportion of the BE fleet. Retain wages and sales for the existing PTO services which can turn a buck but save the company overall

Or

• wage cuts across the board, PSO and commercial, so the commercial side can compete with private operators and BE can compete on tenders when they are forced by EU law to compete on tenders

As an accountant you might tell me where the other cuts can come from to avoid insolvency of the company?

[glasagusban]

@balbec

“A man who, beyond the age of 26, finds himself on a bus can count himself as a failure.”

You’re quoting Thatcher now?

[Brimmer_Bradley]

@Juhniallio buddy. IBEC will continue to quote figures as long as it suits them. They absolutely love the private vs public debate. As much at they blacken the the conditions and rights of the working man and woman the union movement will fight back. I’m still waiting for an answer from @Tim_Riggins re the setting of the remuneration package for professional drivers.
No clear and concise answer yet as to how a professional drivers wages are set ?

[Tim_Riggins]

There is no such thing as an example, there are economic realities.

Lets he clear here, the reason why the intervention isn’t coming is because BE is dead without fundamental reform. Once all PSO routes are up for tender they are goosed. That is coming. We are obliged to do it by 2019 but no doubt there will be a delay of a year or two. In 5 years though, everything is up for grabs. The lads going on about private operators wanted to make a buck and the State losing out, which is it? Aer Lingus in the face of competition only started to make some money (after deregulation) when reform took place. BE are going through what the airline industry went through, survive or die.

[Brimmer_Bradley]

You have all the answers, but you still can’t tell me what the industry standard is for a professional driver is ?

[The_Most_Infamous]

If Bus Eireann were to collapse,

I don’t think it can be allowed to anyway, but if it did…you’d find private bus drivers wages hitting the floor.

[Tim_Riggins]

There is no such thing. People/unions negotiate it.

At the moment we have private operators going from Cork-Dublin on one rate and others on a great deal more.

Only one will survive unless the other reacts. Get with it.

[mikehunt]

All good and we’ll saying govt should lead by example but who ends up paying for it? Bus Eireann drivers would happily see the private bus drivers lose their jobs to maintain their own inflated salaries. HSE one of the best funded health service in the world but provide 3rd world levels of service. Something like 80% of total spend goes on pay. NHS is about 60%-65%. Theirs is shit too but not as bad as ours.

[balbec]

It’s attributed to her. Not clear if she ever actually said it.

[Tim_Riggins]

Why? There would still be Unions. There would still be lucrative government PSOs to hand out that would demand of workers their slice of the pie. LUAS drivers are in a private company and get paid well, what’s the difference?

[Brimmer_Bradley]

NO SUCH THING!!’ So basically you’re defending/ condoning nothing ?
Make your mind up buddy.
You seem to have all the answers.

[Tim_Riggins]

Correct.

The guys on here want;

• the tax payer to subvent wages, meaning we all pay extra for a service provided cheaper elsewhere

Or

• a return to a BE and IR monopoly. Where the consumer pays with shitty timetables and through their taxes

I do agree that just handing over monopolies to private operators isn’t a smart idea, but the above is lunacy.

[Brimmer_Bradley]

Re: the 80% of costs going on salary. People provide health care. Not machines, so … more people = more cost = better healthcare.
You’re not that simple ?

[Tim_Riggins]

Yes there is no such thing.

There is no such decision maker for an accountant, solicitor, civil engineer, structural engineer, architect, barrister, secretary, admin worker, school janitor or whatever.

We all negotiate, including Unions.