Bealham is qualified under parentage rule. Do you have an issue with that as well?
Its a more grey area for me tbf. Itâs the granny rule like footix. Is there better props in the country that didnât get a pro contracts 100%. Ireland is well capable of producing world class players and bringing in journeyman players ahead of young developing players is my biggest issue.
The general ârugbyâ publics outrage at the likes of Neil frances articles is ridiculous. A serious question has to be asked about this policy ahead of further developing grassroots where we have and will produce these players.
Also frances is a cunt nonetheless
Francis is an absolute cunt and this is nowt more than clickbait. Iâm surprised you fell into it
Couldnât care less about the article, it would only confirm my bias. At least we agree on Frances.
I thought it was funny based on how bealham has irish caps. It came up on my tomeline as bundee liked it 
.
If bealham came thought the system here he wouldnât have been capped. A highlight of the hypocrisy in the irfus development and path to professionalism
I think bealham is a fine player and one of the few imports who I felt deserved more caps than he got.
Gimme a few club props who never got a chance that he blocked? Denis Buckleu the only one Iâd say off top of my head deserved a few caps that might have missed a few chances with bealham covering both sides
Iâd say he came in a time when our front row options were a lot less bountiful than they are now
Has Franno not got a point?
If baffled by Buckley too. Always solid when playing for connacht. Wouldnt be first choice for ireland but deserves a cap. Maybe during the summer.
In fairness last time we were really stuck at tighthead probably was when Mike Ross took over from Hayes 10/11 since then we have had great options. 2 world class players in the position now. Marty Moore left leinster around the time bealham got capped. Iirc Moore was dropped as it came out he was off to England. Ended up playing the rest of the season with lansdown. You also had John Ryan I and around the ireland squad.
If we play the ball he does. If playing the man a 2 legged tackle or a bundee aki special
Buckley hasnât had a good game in a long time. His window was 2016-2018 and he didnât get his call-up.
Still not sure what other TH didnât get a chance because of Bealham. Archer? Not good enough. John Ryan was ill for a long time and was a late bloomer.
Bealham is just a poor example by you becuase he actually did come to Ireland and played club rugby in Belfast and got into Irish u 20s through that route. He was in Ireland 5 or 6 years before he got a senior cap
Has he?
I agree on archer. Bealham isnât the worst example tbf he played irish 20s etc. Had a read of wiki there.
I still canât understand the defence of this policy and the attacks on people who question it. A serious conversation is needed. Look what France have done over the last 5 years. Yes they have a much larger pro league but the restrictions on none French players has paid divideds. With 4 Pro teams we have enough of a base to be strong at international
Donât disagree with that. But the narrative from the likes of Francis is a joke. Vast majority of lads brought in under this approach are club players who might get one or two caps at most. Like who did Quin Roux block from an international career. Iâd agree thay the likes of Ross Moloney might have got a token cap and Iâd prefer him to get it than Jean kkeyn⌠But itâs not like there are a host of superstars sitting there twiddling their thumbs becuase of Roux and bealham and the likes.
Anyway, the argument will be redundant soon anyway and the sooner the better. It is tiresome
When you say Club you mean the pro teams I assume? Even at that level there is too many imports and the odd caps they get is a joke. I donât agree with it at all. Thankfully the residency has been extended. I still canât fathom klyen going the rwc ahead of toner.
We actually have the capacity to produce these players whether itâs pro 14, hc or international level and itâs under utilised. I think these journeyman players are harming the development of young players. An outright ban on foreign players is also wrong but a system is needed that when a NIQ player is signed they are world class to boost the pro teams. Signing a saffer to fill a gap and they end up staying on long enough to get qualified and capped by chance is plain wrong.
You are right that there are no superstars missing out because of the imports, but that is fairly obvious because few of the imports themselves are superstars. Itâs hardly the point though. Jack Conan is off on a tour with the Lions next month, he is almost 29 and has just 20 international caps. How many would he have if Stander never came on the scene, and what sort of improvement would it have brought in him? I hear Thornbury has been excellent for Connacht this year, another lad in his late 20s who has watched journeymen like Roux and Kleyn progress ahead of him. And I stay going on about it but Blade missing out to Gibson-Park is incredibly daft.
You are also right though that there will be much less of this in the years ahead. I donât expect Irelands performances to suffer due to it either.
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Thornbury is just a late bloomer. He was at leinster for a few seasons in early 20s and didnât make even one appearance⌠He went to NZ and played moderate level of club rugby over there (blocking some poor kiwi young lad no doubt!) and connacht took a punt on him. Definitely worth a cap during the summer now but he has improved beyond all expectation. Kleyn and Roux had zero impact on his career.
Blade is another fella who will get capped in summer as well maybe. JGP is shit but some coaches have blind spots and there is a string of better 9s behind him
100%, Kleyn stopped Toner going tona world cup too.
I donât know enough about Thornbury to be honest, but he is only 3 years younger than Roux for example and is still waiting for his first cap. Not sure Blade will get a chance this summer, Casey, Mcgrath, Gibson-Park all seem to be ahead of him and Marmion and Cooney there as well. Blade was brilliant when Connacht beat Ulster last month but I believe he is going to try his luck abroad when his contract ends, not much point giving him a cap if he has his mind made up that way.
Just to highlight the hypocrisy of the IRFU on forgien players.
At amateur level in the AIL clubs are forbidden to pay players to play under regulation 6 (irish or not). This is to ensure clubs canât buy success. Clubs also are restricted to 1 NIQ player per squad to ensure the development of irish players. Clubs canât bring in club level players from abroad woth the promise of pay. Clubs have been caught and sanctioned on this. Shannon got caught rotten a few years back. All of this I agree with, maybe allow 2 NIQ players per squad as it does restrict the amount of players who move here to live and want to play at a decent level. But I agree wholeheartedly with the spirit and intentions of these rules.
At pro level the pro teams can bring in forgien players without restrictions (the irfu blocking these is not as frequent as maybe 8/9 years ago). But also bringing in players that are not much better than a Div 1A player. A lot of players in 1A would have been capped at some underage level or played pro abroad or been in the academy system at some stage.
So why have all these restrictions on the amateur game for the development of players yet not use these players at pro level to bring in a substandard import?
No problem with players at de Allende, RGS, Howlett, pinearr, bj botha or Rocky elsome. World class players do add value
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Sure thatâs irrelevant really. If Thornbury couldnât get a game for leinster whatâs happening in the international team at that time (when Roux was being capped) is irrelevant. I donât disagree with your general point at all and if you told me in the morning there was 100% Irish academy produced players in Irish rugby Iâd be happy with that
But this argument is a stick to beat Irish rugby with and not much more than that.