How is the fanny waxing business these days?
You may as well be talking to the wall when talking to a FG supporter. They donât give a shit about the less well off.
Thatâs just an issue you have with the Government.
You have yet to show how there was redistribution from the poor to the wealthy.
âAâ lends to âBâ.
âBâ canât pay it back so âCâ has to honour the debt.
âCâ is forced to sell assets at knockdown prices to generate some cash after honouring âBâ's debt.
âAâ purchases these assets as he hasnât been stung too badly from the downturn.
An upturn in the market means high rents and an increase in asset values. Good for âAâ,bad for âCâ.
âAâ does not have to pay any tax on profits.
âCâ is paying taxes to honour Bâs debts and a lot of his disposable income on rent which is increasing "A"s wealth.
A = Wealthy.
B = Banks
C = Net tax contributor
Transfer of wealth from C to A.
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Pure nonsense. Corporation Tax has been an increasing proportion of Irish tax and 80% of that comes from foreing multi national companies. The collection rate as a proportion of government revenue is high as mentioned, more than in most western countries.
Ireland has an extremely progressive tax system, meaning the lowest paid pay little to no income tax.
Where Ireland is squeezing are those people in the 30k-50k range, and particularly those at the higher marginal rate. There were a couple of budgets where dole recipients were receiving a higher amount back from the State than people earning between the marginal rate of tax to 50k. Iâve an issue with that.
I havenât read your report above but absolutely will with an open mind. I wouldnât even have a problem giving more money to working sole income earners, but reject the notion that everything must come from increased taxes rather than actually looking at other forms of expenditure.
How is that poor to rich?
That is tax payer money. Tax payers are every single person who pays into the system.
In terms of your little simplistic A, B and C there. Youâve forgotten a few things there. Allowing the banks to collapse would have impacted on the poorest more than anyone else in the State in terms of meeting their most basic welfare. Additionally, many of the people who have not paid their debts are working people.
The raw facts are that of the Government debt since 2008, the bulk of that is derived from meeting public sector and welfare payments. That was paid for through higher taxes and that figure debt will also be met through high taxes.
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I suppose the good news is we own most of AIB mate. And that money is being used to pay us dividends. No point taxing ourselves.
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It is incredible in some ways, but not surprising in others, that the likes of Pearse Doherty piped up on AIB and tax. For a Finance spokesperson not to understand basic tax computation is pretty damn funny.
Letâs look at it this way. Ireland Inc covered billions in losses in AIB through capitalization for years. So what these people are arguing is that after years of pouring cash into a business that you should start paying tax straight away as soon as you start to make the cash you lost back.
Ireland will get the âvalueâ of these profits through the current balance sheet and future estimated profitability of the banks in future years through a sale or dividend. If AIB started paying tax on that, Ireland Inc would have been putting additional capital into the banks to offset the loss of this tax asset or losing future value in the company. Itâs roundabout nonsense.
It reminds me of Tony Benn admitting that he couldnât read a balance sheet whilst at the same time demanding nationalization of industries.
I didnât comment on whether paying the banksâ debts was a good or a bad idea. Alls I did was explain how the wealthy got richer to the detriment of everyone else. Public sector are relatively untouched and I didnât include them as they are not net tax contributors.
You simplistically stated that the collapse solely allowed redistribution from the poor to the rich.
The actual evidence suggests otherwise.
This is incredibly misleading Tim. While they may pay a lot, they donât pay enough. You state the marginal tax rate for people on 30k-50k. Itâs about 50%. Some multi nationals pay as low as 1%-2% on profits. but you instead focus on âdole recepientsâ. The classic âlook over thereâ blusehirt deflection tactic.
You asked me to explain how it happened, I gave you one simple example of how it happened. Whereâs your evidence that this hasnât happened. Am I imagining REITs? Am I imagining high rental income? Am I imagining multi nationals paying 1% on profits while those on 35k pay 50% tax on their earnings?
How is it misleading?
Theyâre facts.
Corporation tax reliance on multi nationals is increasingly being seen as a risk to Ireland on a level with Stamp Duty in the 2000s.
So letâs cut the bluster, as a percentage of our tax take, they pay a lot.
You want them to pay even more. Because you think itâs all a magic money tree and donât understand the most basic of economic concepts.
I donât âblameâ anyone btw. I just suggest that 5 euro increases in the dole when people working donât get the same is not a good message when we are reaching full employment. Nor do I think it is a good idea when we still have a huge public debt load.
Some pay as low as 1% or 2%.
Rent seeking and people cheesing off the State (in a major way) is a fact of life wherever you go. I donât agree with that. That goes on in boom or bust times.
But what you suggested earlier was that the economic crisis meant huge redistributions from the poor to the rich.
In actual fact the vast majority of our debt was incurred on day to day spending and on paying for welfare for people unemployed. If Noonan et al really wanted to fuck the poor, why didnât they cut the tap off and let the poorest fend for themselves? Why did successive governments raise taxes? You have a basic logic failure here.
Now theres a world class strawman. 
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Some pay 1 or 2% in any country. Thatâs based on tax reliefs, losses and numerous other factors. Do you not understand the difference between headline and effective corporation tax? That is the same all over the world.
You are deluded into thinking that Apple Ireland actually generated 100 billion plus on Irish activities that should be ours. You are an idiot. If the EU Commission case wins (which recent rulings suggest it wonât), Ireland will be redistributing that tax here there and everywhere, including Apple themselves. Apple have already paid a huge sum to the US in respect of that pot of money.
Corporations pay far in excess of the OECD average of Irelandâs tax take. The bulk of that is from multinationals. Those are the facts.
Whereâs your evidence to suggest otherwise?
Gibberish, why do Multi Nationals funnel profits through Ireland then?
Fucks sake Tim. I know you arenât this dim. Stop 