The Celtic Phoenix - A thread to list the economic miracles of Michael Noonan & Fine Gael

Itā€™s a race to the bottom lads

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More than likely most of them donā€™t want to be in it and are only doing it because they donā€™t want to be saddled with a massive debt if they sell. Being a landlord is a pain in the ass and not really worth the hassle.

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A fucking nuisance . You are spot on .

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They arenā€™t really when you offset all allowable expenses. On a 300k mortgage at 4% you woukd pay 12 k interest and you can offset 9k of that against the rent for starters.

I accept your point as you would know more about it then I would, but there was a blowhole on Newstalk this morning wanting a change to the income tax rules for landlords claiming they were taxed on the full rental income.

They must pay PRSI on full rental as far as I know but are allowed the interest offset as well as plenty other expenses to be offset against the rent. Problem for a lot of people (if you wish to call it that) who borrower at peak is that they are on dirt cheap tracker rates, maybe less than 1%. So they donā€™t have a huge interest bill to offset. But are far better off with the low interest rate

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:joy:

Harsh :joy:

Sorry lads it just grinds my gears :rofl:

Is there anything to be said for another Bacon report.

No. They made a pigs ear of the last one

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What do you mean the ā€œsame treatmentā€? The treatment is transfer pricing which is case by case. You are tying yourself in knots here. You are saying TP is fine but now are going after all multi nationals which makes absolutely no sense if you think the above.

And I donā€™t ā€œfumeā€ at dolies. I pointed out the ridiculous situation where you needed to be earning nearly 50,000 a year to enjoy the same budgetary increase as social welfare receipients. It makes no sense in a rapidly improving job market to provide an increase like that.

Interesting analysis from Ronan Lyons today, rents have increased about 20% in the last 3 years for ā€œstayersā€ i.e. those in the same house/apartment. However, for movers they have increased almost 50% in the same time.

It tallies with my situation, I have a neg equity apartment that I rented out for the last couple of years. I didnā€™t increase the rent over the last 3 years because the tenants didnā€™t cause trouble and sure half of any increase would go direct to government. The rent controls have really screwed over people like me though because they have effectively devalued my apartment just by me being reasonable.

Stick to the point, you have a habit of attempting to steer debates away from the main point. My problem is with our governments decision to help multi-nationals to avoid paying tax. EU have ruled that Ireland enabled Apple to gain unfair advantage through sweet tax deals. There have been no rumblings of discontent from other multi-nationals operating in Ireland which leads people to believe that they were getting the same or similar deal. You fume about a fiver increase for dollies and welfare fraud but have no problem with Apple paying zero tax on certain profits reported by as being earned in Ireland. Now I know why FG use the ā€œlook over thereā€ tactic. It works a treat on a certain type of voter.

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Youā€™re not taking grandfathering into account hereā€¦ a big oversight on your part.

Where is my habit on that?

You are the person in here who deflected away from a criticism of the government for providing increases in social welfare to giving out about pursuing welfare fraud and then Apple. What you donā€™t seem to get is I am criticising the Govt but you are windmilling to some hobby horses of yours as you are unable to debate on the point at hand. Social welfare increase cost hundreds of millions a year extra. Our welfare spending has persisted it being high, not just the spike due to the recession, but pre recession when the country lost the plot. No meaningful reform has taken place and we have the ludicrous situation whereby we increase the dole in an expanding market. All the whole leaving workers (many of whom are being squeezed by higher rents caused by government intervention to the market) to not seeing a similar increase in income until they reach a relatively high wage of 47k per annum.

Instead of debating that you label me and windmill off on Apple.

You arenā€™t able to defend your position on Apple as you donā€™t have a clue what you are talking about. You have it in for all multinationals clearly, but claim to be okay with Transfer Pricing.

Multinationals all negotiate on OECD principles. Their deals are all unique with their home countryā€™s tax authority signing off, you donā€™t seem to get this. I remember you before giving out about indigenous Irish businesses unfairly having higher effective rates of CT, that is your issue. It is delusional and shows a misunderstanding of TP, which is an established global way to do business.

That may explain why other multi-nationals are not kicking up but again that is a side issue. The main point is that Irish govt granted illegal tax benefits to Apple. On one hand they target welfare fraud but hypocritically defend tax laws that enable a multi-national to siphon profits through Ireland free of tax.

http://investor.apple.com/secfiling.cfm?filingid=1193125-15-356351

Within Appleā€™s SEC filings they have disclosures about offshore minutes which they are not remitting to the US due to current Corpotation Tax. Both they and their investors know there will be taxes paid eventually- as soon as the US reforms their own rules.

The tax will be paid, and it will be paid to where it is due to, that is the United States.

Any owner worth their salt could have ā€˜cut a dealā€™ with their lender during the bust years. These banks were all funded to cater for write offs.

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Thatā€™s the thing. I had tenants in my apartment for the last couple of years and I didnā€™t put up the rent in that time. Most landlords want no hassle tenants, as long as the rent is paid on time and looked after well most landlords wonā€™t increase the rent. I know if I get good tenants I wont be putting up the rent for as long as they are in the apartment.

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