The Celtic Phoenix - A thread to list the economic miracles of Michael Noonan & Fine Gael


#1844

I’ve never defended unions … Fair pay for fair play and you won’t hear a peep out of me. I’m left leaning but not a out and out lefty head banger.


#1845

They won’t. Should improve on the medium term. Biggest worry really is that without the brits, the corpo tax wheezes may become a bit more exposed.


#1846

What’s wrong with the working man fighting to improve his lot ?
Would you rather the wealthy get ever wealthier while the common mans living standard is again reduced by the last recession. Time we got back to where we were beforehand.


#1847

The problem is that people fighting for wealth for doing little or nothing just doesn’t work.

Didn’t you describe these lads as work shy recently?


#1848

No.


#1849

I don’t think the state has any business building houses. They should make it as easy as possible for others to build them and penalise those hoarding land but that’s it. Incentives fuck up the supply and demand balance. The houses will be built, they already are being built it’s just a slow process


#1850

That’s all fine and dandy but not many can afford houses as things stand and that is at record low interest rates . Even if we start building houses at rates that match demographics a house will still be bloody too dear for a great many.

.


#1851

Was just about to say… Wages haven’t matched inflation… Rents and house prices are soaring trapping people.


#1852

Even if we leave out the price of land ( cost varies ) the cost of building a 3 bad semi in say Raheen is too dear for the average family income .


#1853

Them foreigners are buying up land and property all over the country manipulating prices… Paddy is a tenant in his own country. Luke Kelly was right…for what suffer our patriots…


#1854

Our patriots were well able to amass property portfolios the world over .


#1855

So throw Ireland’s working class to the capitalists?
Leave it to the likes of Johnny Ronan & Denny o Brine.


#1856

That cunt Brimmer is cleaning house. The cunt.


#1857

That is a problem ok . The big local authority schemes in the 1970s failed . The absolute belief in the market in the last 20 years failed

No one has come up with a solution . I think we are now seeing the firest real sign of western decline . Housing shortage is now a massive problem in the western world .


#1858

Yeah you did. Or might have. I don’t know.


#1859

Housing, like water schemes, policing, waste services, education, health etc should be a given, not free not substandard but available and affordable, unfortunately though the capitalists and landed have too much to lose if government policy changes.
A dwelling house is a strange concept in one way. In the 70s someone would have built a house for £30,000, spent their life paying for it,someone else buys it in the 00s and then spends their lives paying for it and so on, the builders were long paid, the suppliers were long paid.
The banks however continue to make money from it for maybe 80, 90, 100 years, strange that it’s rigged to benefit the capitalists in the long term but that’s the western way I suppose.


#1860

House are built using scarce ( and becoming scarcer resources ). . This cost of building a house is getting dearer and that is leaving land costs out of the equation and considering reduced Labour costs .

I think the old arguments of state and private may be a little redundant here and new thinking could be needed in public discourse .

To be fair people are expecting a loan for 20 years or so to pay approx 5 times their gross annual salary . That might not be sustainable going forward .


#1861

Not so sure about the scarce resources imput, increased efficiency and machinery ie timber frame, automation etc would surely balance other cost out.
Either way social housing is entirely at odds with capitalism so FG won’t even consider social housing.


#1862

Why? We’re seeing in a ball of western countries that housing markets have gone bananas since the state stopped building houses.


#1863

Social housing isnt a panacea for all problems . Big planned estates have failed utterly.

My point is that debate and policy isn’t reflective of new realities and western decline .