The Killing of Jean McConville - Justified or Not?

[QUOTE=“TheUlteriorMotive, post: 940789, member: 2272”]How do Sinn Fein reconcile McGuinness’ comments re PSNI with Sinn Fein view that Garda need same level of accountability to an independent ombudsman

"Nuala O’Loan’s office has 125 staff, none of which are members of the PSNI,
to deal with 5,000 officers. The Ombudsman Commission are only cleared for
81 staff to deal with nearly three times as many officers. Because of under
staffing the new commission will have to rely heavily on GardaĂ­ to carry out
the investigations for them which is just the same as the current situation
of the Gardai investigating themselves.
“The Garda Ombudsman Commission does not have the power to insist on
disciplinary action being initiated against a Garda. Nuala O’Loan has this
power in respect to the PSNI. The Ombudsman Commission have no powers to
investigate retired officers, Nuala O’Loan does. These are issues which we
hope that amending legislation will be brought forward to resolve.”

Aengus Ó Snodaigh TD: 14 September, 2006
http://www.sinnfein.ie/gaelic/news/detail/15925[/QUOTE]
What sort of fucktard gets confused between the PSNI and the Police Ombudsman? Ó Snodaigh is talking favourably about the powers of the Police Ombudsman. That’s not speaking about the PSNI. Indeed the careful reader might have noticed that he mentions there are no PSNI members working for the Police Ombudsman.

Sinn Fein are on record as saying Garda should have PSNI levels of accountability.

Unhappy with Adams being questioned they then threaten to withdraw support for PSNI.

So are they now saying that demanding PSNI levels of accountability was sarcasm?

Will they threaten to withdraw support for any police force that investigates its leaders if they feel that such investigation is unwarranted and therefore politically motivated. Surely correct course of action is refer complaint to their beloved ombudsman.

Internet is great for providing evidence of words being used by people. Helpful when they then try and spin a different yarn.

Imagine wasting your bank holiday posting and arguing about this.

I couldnt be arsed reading back through it, can you sum it up in 5 bullet points, preferably marking out each posters stance?

[QUOTE=“TheUlteriorMotive, post: 940793, member: 2272”]Sinn Fein are on record as saying Garda should have PSNI levels of accountability.

Unhappy with Adams being questioned they then threaten to withdraw support for PSNI.

So are they now saying that demanding PSNI levels of accountability was sarcasm?

Will they threaten to withdraw support for any police force that investigates its leaders if they feel that such investigation is unwarranted and therefore politically motivated. Surely correct course of action is refer complaint to their beloved ombudsman.[/QUOTE]

Ah so you’re a simpleton. The existence of an ombudsman precludes anyone from complaining publically does it? The purpose of the ombudsman is not to hide accountability or to prevent anyone from voicing displeasure.

Adams was fairly unequivocal last night in stating that there is no question of SF withdrawing their support for the PSNI, it has strengthened their resolve in pursuing the required improvements. Like everything else on this topic the facts seem to have passed you by.

Rocko, you’re some man for adopting an arrogant dismissive sneering tone and I’d say you’ve a fairly high opinion of yourself. Is this something that occurs all the time or just in your online persona?

Didn’t Lord Haw Haw take the German side against the Brits?

[QUOTE=“Rocko, post: 940803, member: 1”]Ah so you’re a simpleton. The existence of an ombudsman precludes anyone from complaining publically does it? The purpose of the ombudsman is not to hide accountability or to prevent anyone from voicing displeasure.

Adams was fairly unequivocal last night in stating that there is no question of SF withdrawing their support for the PSNI, it has strengthened their resolve in pursuing the required improvements. Like everything else on this topic the facts seem to have passed you by.[/QUOTE]

Mcguinness reveals he is receiving private briefings from PSNI sources. We are told Gerry Adams went their voluntarily. Why is McGuinness so annoyed? Adams could have postponed the interview.

[I]Mr McGuinness, Northern Ireland’s Deputy First Minister, told a press conference at Stormont that the arrest of his party leader and “friend” was politically motivated.

He claimed Sinn FĂ©in had been told by “senior” and “reforming” figures within the Police Service of Northern Ireland (PSNI) that “there was still a dark side within policing here in the north of Ireland“.

“I think we have seen that dark side flex its muscles in the course of the last couple of days,” he added.

“We know who they are. The reformers know who they are,” Mr McGuinness told reporters.

[/I]
Surely in any democracy police have to be politically free to investigate. Police need to be operationally free. Sinn Fein reveal their totalitarian leanings. If PSNI members are murdered by dissidents is that ok if they are part of the dark side?

Yes.

Oh it’s very much all the time. I’m at my worst in the pub I think. I do try and keep it in check online as much as I can but there’s no escaping the annoying dismissive tone I adopt. It’s certainly not always popular but it helps to be invariably correct.

[QUOTE=“TheUlteriorMotive, post: 940820, member: 2272”]Mcguinness reveals he is receiving private briefings from PSNI sources. We are told Gerry Adams went their voluntarily. Why is McGuinness so annoyed? Adams could have postponed the interview.

[I]Mr McGuinness, Northern Ireland’s Deputy First Minister, told a press conference at Stormont that the arrest of his party leader and “friend” was politically motivated.

He claimed Sinn FĂ©in had been told by “senior” and “reforming” figures within the Police Service of Northern Ireland (PSNI) that “there was still a dark side within policing here in the north of Ireland“.

“I think we have seen that dark side flex its muscles in the course of the last couple of days,” he added.

“We know who they are. The reformers know who they are,” Mr McGuinness told reporters.

[/I]
Surely in any democracy police have to be politically free to investigate. Police need to be operationally free. Sinn Fein reveal their totalitarian leanings. If PSNI members are murdered by dissidents is that ok if they are part of the dark side?[/QUOTE]

PSNI are free to investigate. Again, even a cursory glance at the Adams press conference or a brief read of any article on the topic and you’d realise that Adams was abundantly clear in supporting this.

But transparency and accountability is a two way street. You have taken criticism, healthy in any democracy, nd made the leap to executions by dissident republicans. You’ve lost the run of yourself entirely.

Bbc reporting on six o clock news (headline btw) that Adams will not be charged and the file sent to the DPP was just an account of the police actions over the four days. No mention on RTE.

[QUOTE=“Rocko, post: 940836, member: 1”]PSNI are free to investigate. Again, even a cursory glance at the Adams press conference or a brief read of any article on the topic and you’d realise that Adams was abundantly clear in supporting this.

But transparency and accountability is a two way street. You have taken criticism, healthy in any democracy, nd made the leap to executions by dissident republicans. You’ve lost the run of yourself entirely.[/QUOTE]
Speaking out of both sides of their mouth.

You cannot have it every way. The police have to be allowed investigate. Adams is also entitled to due process. Sinn Fein made a mistake in throwing toys out of pram over Adams arrest. I am surprised they made that mistake. Adams has sought to redress the error.

[I]Mr McGuinness said the PSNI contained a “dark side” which was “maliciously and vehemently hostile to the peace process”

Sinn FĂ©in deputy leader Mary Lou McDonald said this morning in Dublin that Mr Adams was not a suspect in the PSNI investigation, repeating the party’s claim that the timing of his ongoing interview was “political” on the part of the PSNI.

She denied Sinn FĂ©in was seeking to undermine the police but said the party was concerned the timing of the arrest, coming amid local and European election campaigns, was “politically contrived”.

[/I]

,
So the ombudsman is a woman?

SF were seriously rattled over the weekend and leading figures like Mary-Lou and McGuinness had a serious cut at the PSNI. They’ve regained their senses a good bit since Adams was released. All a bit silly as if they’d held their nerve and made the right noises about due process etc they could have made significant political progress.

[QUOTE=“TheUlteriorMotive, post: 940857, member: 2272”]Speaking out of both sides of their mouth.

You cannot have it every way. The police have to be allowed investigate. Adams is also entitled to due process. Sinn Fein made a mistake in throwing toys out of pram over Adams arrest. I am surprised they made that mistake. Adams has sought to redress the error.

[I]Mr McGuinness said the PSNI contained a “dark side” which was “maliciously and vehemently hostile to the peace process”

Sinn FĂ©in deputy leader Mary Lou McDonald said this morning in Dublin that Mr Adams was not a suspect in the PSNI investigation, repeating the party’s claim that the timing of his ongoing interview was “political” on the part of the PSNI.

She denied Sinn FĂ©in was seeking to undermine the police but said the party was concerned the timing of the arrest, coming amid local and European election campaigns, was “politically contrived”.

[/I][/QUOTE]

Are you naive enough to believe there aren’t opponents to SF in the PSNI? This was a stunt designed to hurt Adams and SF. It was poorly planned and executed but that doesn’t make it any less sinister.

Actually, there isn’t.

The legitimacy of the IRA violence rather than their campaign per se.