This is what my “running buddy” feels I should be doing in order to achieve my admittedly rather modest marathon goals. He thinks four days is sufficient for a plodder like me. So I’m trying to do two handy runs per week, one “session” where I join the running club on a Wednesday night and a longer weekend run. I’ve been able to do for about a month without any major niggles, albeit I was on holidays last week and only got two short runs in (the Mrs left my running gear outside in a thunderstorm which scuppered my planned run #3). I’d listen to physio and your body. Do what you can manage. It might mean that you have to revisit your original goals for the race.
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He should just do very easy running. His body cant handle the load of a session and he is inviting another injury. Just focus on time on feet at a very very easy pace. Forget about the watch and strava would be my advice.
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Strava is a fucking curse at times.
Only thing I’m watching when running a lot of the time is the HR.
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I think it was @Rintintin who pointed out how the Strava and Garmin scores contradict each other. Strava rewards you flogging yourself half to death every day while Garmin wants you taking a 72 hour recovery after a long run.
Best thing you can do is just listen to your body and the older you get the more important recovery becomes*
*I appreciate the irony of this after yesterdays post and being one of the most injured forumites
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On another note, how many of you have made the swap to carbon plated runners? Are they all they’re made out to be or a ridiculous waste of money? The attractiveness to me is that they appear to limit the amount of force that your legs take so even ignoring the faster time they help your body recover quicker. But part of me just thinks they’re an expensive fad and I should just keep plodding around in my Kayanos
Wife got them last Christmas. She’s a decent runner, (competitive in local races). She reckons they’re worth it. Make a noticable difference ton times. Maybe 20s for a 5km. Ian O’Riordan in IT marathon column recommended getting them too.
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The main difference you’ll feel is on the weight, the kayano are heavy enough
It would be a worthwhile investment for road races, you’ll certainly go a bit faster
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I have a pair. Only race in them and never wear them otherwise. I think that have helped a nice bit . I would say if wearing them for say a marathon ,expect your feet to be pretty beat up after . Ur sacrificing support for performance.
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Haven’t run in Carbons yet but have a pair of Kayano and also Saucony Speed 3 (which have a nylon plate thing).
It’s some difference. Firstly the Speeds are way lighter. On top of that they just feel faster in terms of foam, etc. It’s hard to run slow in them.
I use the Kayano and another similar pair for regular training and then the Speeds for races or speed-work. There’s def even a mental boost when you pull on the “fast runners” for a race.
Usually pretty good deals online too to save paying full whack
We’re the Kayanos recommended to you or did you just use them out of choice? The main worry I’d have is having 2 shoes with completely different types of support which I assume would be a shortcut to injury as well
Got them in a shop in Nov after gait analysis etc. all the other runners I’ve had are neutral with no difference in injury etc (which usually comes from me over-doing it as opposed to my gait!)
Some of the stuff you’d read on the internet would suggest that rotating runners might actually prevent injury through varying the strains 
My head is wrecked from reading up on it. I’d be more inclined to just stick with what I know when I’m staying ahead of the niggles. The speed goals for this year are already done so it’s the slow build to DCM from here and making it to the line in one piece
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I’ve read and re-read all the stuff and tried out many different shoes over the years. I’m currently rotating between two pairs of road shoes (I’ve a variety for the hills alright 
). I’ll make a decision in August as to which of the two road pairs I prefer and buy a fresh pair for a couple of runs pre marathon as per the advice I got. I’m not going adding in a new brand or model now.
PS if anyone wants a hook up to a good Zoom yoga class (Yoga for the Athlete), let me know. I’ve been attending these classes in person a lot since September but the teacher is gone to France during the summer, so I finally did her online one tonight. She’s one of Ireland’s top adventure racers and trail runners.
If ye’ve nothing to do tonight around 11ish, the Mount Marathon race in Alaska goes off featuring Wexford man Paddy O’Leary @Mac.
It’s often described as one of the toughest 5kms in the world. For context, a time of around 45 minutes should get you on the podium.
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Can I ask a stupid question. When the ‘support’ of Carbon Runners is mentioned, does it refer to the cushioning support (or lack of it) built into the runner or the support directly beneath your foot like arch support?
I’m assuming the former but just checking
Can you post the article?
On a related note, did you figure out the carbon plate conundrum?
Could you recommend what type of racing shoe to buy for someone who’s been wearing a Saucony model up to now?
HEALTH
Can these new super-trainers help you run faster?
Some have carbon-plated soles, others are flared-heel or ‘cloud’-podded — trainers have never been so technical, but do we really need them, asks Peta Bee
Gisele Bündchen, the Princess of Wales and Reese Witherspoon in their trainers
CHRIS JACKSON/GETTY IMAGES; BROADIMAGE/SHUTTERSTOCK
Tuesday July 11 2023, 12.01am BST, The Times
Adecade ago, celebrities including Madonna and Gwyneth Paltrow along with every other woman at the school gates could be clocked teetering on ludicrous-looking rocker-soled MBT trainers. I was one of them, sold on the claim that the Masai Barefoot Technology would help me to emulate the walking stride of the tribespeople — supposedly, by exercising superficial muscles in the legs and buttocks, MBT would deliver toned calf muscles, less back pain and better posture.
On the fast-moving conveyor belt of trainer trends, it was no surprise that they fell out of favour after studies questioned whether the chunky shoes were any better for relieving lower back pain than a regular pair. A stride behind them came FitFlops, “the shoe with the built-in gym”, also designed to tone your calf muscles as you walked, then barefoot trainers such as the ridiculously minimalist Vibram FiveFingers, rubberised gloves for the feet that were said to encourage natural movement, but which physiotherapists said left wearers prone to injury.
Now we find ourselves wearing “maximalist” cushioned shoes designed to enhance stability and protect joints. Hoka One One — as spotted on Reese Witherspoon and Cameron Diaz — was among the brands that led the vogue for flared heels, while the Swiss company On Running’s distinctive “cloud”-podded outsole trainers — fans of which include the model Gisele Bündchen, the actress Zendaya and the Princess of Wales — drew queues to its flagship Regent Street store. Alternatively, there are “super-shoes” that promise athletic speed, such as the Nike Vaporfly, and come with embedded carbon-fibre plates for added propulsion. But will any of these really make a difference to your daily walk or jog?
Certainly, advances in shoe technology don’t seem to have produced a downward trend in injuries, suggesting that for all the fancy cushioning, trainers won’t protect your hips, knees and ankles. A Cochrane review of 12 published trials involving more than 10,000 runners found “no reduction in lower-limb running injuries in adults when comparing different types of running shoes”. And one of a series of trainer studies presented at the recent American College of Sports Medicine annual meeting found that, for non-elites, wearing an ordinary running shoe led to greater improvements in running economy — a measure of how efficiently the body uses oxygen, considered a strong predictor for endurance performance — than the new breed of super-shoe.
Dr Ceri Diss, a former international runner and a senior lecturer in biomechanics at the University of Roehampton, has spent her career investigating the attributes of trendy trainers and testing whether claims made by manufacturers live up to scientific scrutiny. Her take on the shoe market is that most miracle claims about products are not relevant to the average person. “We know that some shoes do help elite runners to move more quickly, but they won’t work for everyone else,” Diss says. “Despite the claims, there is no single shoe, no magic bullet technology, that is going to prevent injuries, make you run faster and improve your posture and technique.”
So what can shoe science tell us?
A cushioned foam sole will absorb some of the impact of running, but they won’t fully protect against poor technique or the hammering your joints get if you are overweight.
“Trainers reduce ground force by 1-2 per cent,” Diss says. “But there’s a massive impact force with every running stride which starts at the achilles tendon in the heel and will travel up the calf to the knees and hips regardless of how cushioned your footwear.”
In last year’s Cochrane review the researchers reported that wearing cushioned shoes made little or no difference to the number of runners sustaining a lower-limb running injury when compared with minimalist shoes. Counterintuitively, as a six-week study of runners at Oregon State University found, too much cushioning can alter your running mechanics, meaning you hit the grounder harder and absorb more impact when wearing them.
“A shoe with too much cushioning can alter your natural spring-like running mechanics,” says the sports physiotherapist Paul Hobrough, the author of Running Free of Injuries. “This can disrupt the body’s in-built shock absorbency so that there’s more impact on your joints, especially if you run fast.”
Can a shoe really improve your posture?
Curved soled shoes including MBTs are making a comeback, but don’t expect them to improve your walking, standing or running posture or protect your joints. “They are designed to make you unstable and the theory is that this will force you to recruit so-called postural muscles,” Diss says. “However, they can actually do the opposite and increase pressure on the hips and knees with no convincing evidence that they help with posture or back and joint pain.”
Will carbon super-shoes make your Parkrun faster?
As much as you might hope to post a personal best time if you have spent £200 or more on a pair of super-shoes, there is not a direct return for investment when it comes to speed.
“If you run slower than about eight minutes per mile, or five minutes per kilometre, they simply won’t work,” Diss says. As you strike the ground when you run, the plantar fascia underneath your foot splays to the toes and then springs back to propel the body upwards in preparation for the next stride. “There is a split-second transition when your body stops going downwards and is projected into the air and the harder you squash the plantar fascia at this point, the greater the propulsion.
“Carbon plates in shoes act in the same way: the more force applied to the carbon, the greater the forward and upward propulsion.” For non-elites, the point at which they grunt is the point at which the body sinks and prepares to be projected forwards. “The shoes are highly effective for fast runners and have been shown to shave off one second per kilometre, which would be a significant 42 seconds in a marathon,” Diss says. “But if you are only squashing the carbon plate a little bit as you would if running slower than eight minutes per mile, the shoe will not make you run any faster than usual.”
Should you wear super-shoes every time you run?
If you do invest in a carbon-plated trainer, the consensus is to save them for “speedy” running days and not to wear them plodding around the park. Some studies on recreational runners have suggested that the super-shoes force people to change their technique, especially if you are not used to wearing them, which might predispose you to bone stress injuries and foot pain.
“Runners feet naturally strike the ground in different ways and if you are a heel-striker, these shoes tend to propel you onto your forefoot more than usual,” Diss says. “A lot of natural rear-foot strikers experience calf and achilles pain if they wear them too often.”
A small pilot study presented by exercise scientists from California State University at the ACSM conference looked at runners who wore a regular lightweight trainer or a carbon-plated super-shoe for eight weeks, during which time the researchers assessed any changes in their running efficiency. By the end of the trial, those wearing the regular shoes had improved their running economy by 5.6 per cent compared with just a 1 per cent increase in the carbon-plated footwear, although they also complained more about sore, aching feet. “These fast shoes are extremely lightweight by design and offer little in the way of upper support,” Diss says. “They are not designed to be worn as you would a regular trainer, and while some people might get away with it, it’s probably not worth the risk.”
Do you need a trainer with pronation control?
Stability trainers are designed to correct excessive over-pronation — rolling inwards of the foot as you run or walk — with strategically placed midsole motion support to prevent sideways movement.
“In the 1990s everyone was buying stability shoes as it was thought that any pronation was bad,” Diss says. “However, this ultimately caused more problems than it prevented, and it is now accepted that everyone needs pronation of some level in order to move forward efficiently.”
As a foot strikes the ground it typically rolls about 15 per cent inwards, flattening the arch of your foot to keep ankles and lower leg in alignment and to prepare for the next step or stride. This is known as neutral pronation. “Only if you pronate more than that might you need a stability shoe,” Diss says. “A warning sign is if a picture of you running shows your ankle bulging inwards as it absorbs impact, although the issue is less common than many people think.” Wearing such shoes if you don’t need them can cause knee and hip pain and, by altering your natural technique, can reduce strength in foot and leg muscles over time.
Is barefoot better?
A trend for wearing minimally cushioned trainers or ditching shoes was supposed to help strengthen underused muscles in the feet, ankles and lower leg that had lain dormant as a result of habitual shoe-wearing. Its premise was sound with studies showing that in habitually barefoot populations, people run differently, landing more softly on the forefoot or midfoot rather than their heels and generating far less impact. In theory, that would mean fewer injuries.
Problems arose, though, when people transitioned too quickly from wearing cushioned shoes to none. This created injury problems such as damaged foot bones and issues with the soles of the feet. Runners suffered no fewer injuries overall, but experienced greater discomfort than runners wearing comfortable trainers.
Benefits seem to come from variety. A report in the European Journal of Sports Science found that runners who gradually introduced minimalist, low (but not zero) cushioned shoes into no more than 35 per cent of their weekly runs developed better strength in their calves and in stabilising muscles of the feet.
“Going barefoot around the house is helpful for developing foot strength,” Hobrough says. “And experimenting with minimalist shoes through gradual introduction can be helpful for some, but running barefoot is not recommended for most people.”
Should you have your gait analysed?
Visit a specialist running shop and you are likely to be asked to hop on a treadmill to assess your running form or to stand and run on a pressure plate with computer sensors that measure the force under each part of your foot, checking for asymmetry that might be responsible for pain in the back, hips and knees.
Gait analysis is supposed to narrow down suitable shoe options so that you can select a pair tailored to your needs, but is it necessary? In the Cochrane review researchers found “no evidence that prescribing footwear based on foot type reduces running-related lower-limb injuries”, but Hobrough believes that if performed properly, extensive gait assessments carried out by physiotherapists can be helpful in avoiding injury.
“Systems such as Phits offer a 3D scan of the foot to capture the biomechanics of the foot walking, standing, balancing and running and provides feedback in relation to the rest of the body,” he says. “Video analysis is then used to create a tailored prescription for conditioning programmes and orthotic insoles if they are needed — and these in-depth approaches are very different to hopping on a treadmill in a shop.”
Are insoles necessary?
Using off-the-peg insoles purchased without prescription is inadvisable. “Not everyone needs orthotic insoles,” Hobrough says. “They are not a panacea, won’t cure injuries and should be used only if prescribed and fitted by a physiotherapist.”
He says no insole will take the place of a good stretching and conditioning programme, despite what many people believe. One review at La Trobe University, Melbourne, showed that off-the-peg cushioned “shock-absorbing” insoles designed to reduce impact and manage existing injuries are ineffective, with one study finding that using them increased the risk of problems. However, custom-made orthoses did help to prevent overall injuries and stress fractures, the study found.
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