Where are the minutes about discussion on the RIC commemoration? I can only see minute up to Nov 2015.
Is there a need to have a state commemoration? I see from the last minutes that there is an annual mass for RIC members killed and a question was asked should the Gardai have a presence but they said this mass wasnt state organised so not in their remit. Did something change or get put forward in the intervening years to warrant a state arrange commemoration?
Tim has just provided general links to a website without any specific evidence of discussion on this event, much less anyone now protesting having previously supported it or anything.
There is always good and bad people on all sides. That’s hardly unique to this conflict. It still doesn’t mean that it’s mature or reasonably empathetic for people to go out of their way to honour those who oppressed them.
Guys can we not just acknowledge that were good and bad people on all sides and that Irish history is very complex
Like, how difficult must it have been for people who saw their loved ones murdered in the Troubles to see their murderers released under the terms of the Good Friday Agreement
Before 1916 the reality is that an independent Irish state outside the United Kingdom was not really a major issue and it was only the execution of the 1916 leaders that changed that
These are your ancestors, it does not mean they and the rest of the Irish people were forelock tuggers or lickspittles then, they were just people trying to get by
It’s important to acknowledge different points of view without vilifying them
It’s important to acknowledge people’s different historical truths
Like, a lot of British forces here were just young lads who were poor, had no education and had little life prospects and who knew nothing of Ireland, a lot of them coming here in 1916 thought they were being sent to Belgium
They were being exploited
James Connolly himself recognised this essential truth
That was also true in the Troubles
There were also good people in the RUC as well as plenty of bad eggs
And at the same time it’s easy to see why people took up arms and joined the IRA and believed in the cause
In any future united Ireland, commemorations of the dead of the Troubles on all sides would have to be dealt with
Until we learn to see others’ points of view and understand where they were and are coming from, how can we ever understand each other and live with each other
This is a myopic view of history
There are a lot of people who quite justifiably feel that the IRA oppressed them and their ancestors
And yet if there is a future united Ireland, the dead of the IRA will have to be commemorated
This is no different
The problem here is that people are looking at the past through 2020 goggles
Weren’t there a family of Protestants in Offaly, the sons of which were murdered by pre-Treaty IRA basically because they were Protestants?
Terrible atrocities on both sides.
I think it was the Pearsons of Coolacrease
There was a programme about it on RTE circa 2007/08, Hidden History it was called
Frank Aiken served as a minister in the Irish government yet he was involved in the sectarian Altnaveigh massacre in 1922
Hon Father Paddy
Abbeyleix Parish Priest Fr Paddy Byrne has launched a blistering attack against plans to stage an event commemorating the RIC.
Taking to Facebook this afternoon, Fr Paddy has accused members of the RIC of being agents of the British State that evicted Irish people off their landed during The Famine.
Fr Paddy said: “The RIC were agents of the British state that worked for British landlords to evict Irish people off the land during the planned genocide that some call “the famine”.
“The Idea of celebrating and commemorating the Black and Tans is demonstrative of how out of touch this Government is with the grass roots of Irish Citizens.”
I understand that they were killed because they were believed to be informers.
Good for you. Your great grandfather sounds like a real hero.
Here is the document Timothy said should have been questioned, where it is said.
‘Consideration should be given…’
There is NO recommendation to proceed with a commemoration, only that it should be considered.
What are you pulling this from?
A priest talking about someone being out of touch with Irish citizens!
Agree mostly — the real crime was the economic depression that strangled the country which forced men to join the army or police force. Further to Tom Barry and men like that, Collins and many others worked for the British civil service – there simply wasnt many opportunities outside official bodies for men outside a farming background - or indeed the second / third sons of farmers. But there was a minimum education requirement involved so these men were not the poorest of the poor either.
The problem with the commemoration is that the Tans were fully fledged RIC men and we know what damage they did … the Auxies, that came later, were not … but in public history they are all the one and this muddies the waters… the complexities of it aint easy – you would have had nationalist / sympathetic to the cause RIC. Loyalist RIC. Catholic /Protestant. North / South…
I dont know if a big deal needed to be made of it - but it’s a chance to put the past to bed. It’s 100 years on and we should be looking to the future.
The one thing that annoys me tho is the constant rhetoric about us needing to mature as a people … That’s a load of gash. Who the fuck do the likes of Varadkar or whoever the political elite in power at a given time think they are to speak down to us like that? - matured after a rubby match. Matured after the Queen’s visit. Now maturing because of the RIC … Perhaps if they used language like ‘healing’ it would have a completely different affect. Stupid cunts.
A defrocked priest.
Who?
He was a great man to police an eviction.