Great news
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We’re really here
KDB is gravy
The Pep and Jim bromance is the feel-good story of the year
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Another year without the quadruple
Unacceptable
Massive game in the title race coming up now for a faltering Manchester City. After their principled stand last night, Citeh probably now have a lot of the neutral support over the plot ringleaders Man U.
Good enough for the cunts.
Can anyone do the needful here please
“City or United?”, the nurses used to ask at Booth Hall children’s hospital in Manchester. At one end of the ward, there was a poster of Colin Bell in his blue shirt while, at the other, it was a picture of George Best, resplendent in red, elegantly drifting between tackles. Choose your end, choose your team.
Mark Hodkinson tells the story in Blue Moon, his book of Manchester City’s season trying to navigate a way through the puddles and potholes of what used to be known as English football’s Third Division.
It was the season, 1998-99, that culminated in Manchester United winning the European Cup and “football bloody hell”, courtesy of Alex Ferguson, coming to symbolise their success in the same year the team on the other side of Mancunian Way lost to Lincoln City, Wycombe Wanderers (twice) and York City.
City’s derby that year was against Macclesfield Town. The attendance for one game, an Auto Windscreens Shield first-round tie (north section) against Mansfield Town, was 3,007, the lowest in City’s history. And Hodkinson summed up what it was like to be in Manchester in that era.
“The children who shuffled into Booth Hall in the 1960s, with their poorly tummies and broken arms, now have children of their own,” Hodkinson wrote. “They live in a very different city. On the playing fields and the street corners, the ratio is much altered. Where it was once blue, red, blue, red it is now red, red, blue, red. The kids are United. Manchester City are a club in retreat.”
And now?
If you will indulge me for a moment, it was certainly intriguing to learn from my son recently that every one of his classmates, in his final year of primary school, supported City apart from a small number who preferred Liverpool.
It sounded strange, and difficult to believe, when we live a 10-minute drive from Manchester city centre. So strange, indeed, that I asked him to do some more research the next day. And he reported back with the same information: Class 6G was a United-free zone. Blue, blue, blue, red (Liverpool), blue, blue.
OK, it is not an exact science — and the kind of anomaly, perhaps, that could conceivably have brought up an entirely different set results in another class, another school, another neighbourhood.
Or is there something more to it and, to quote the football historian Gary James, the modern-day, trophy-hungry City have become “the choice for the new generation”?
Is Manchester red? Or is it blue? And is there a danger for United that the relentless success of Pep Guardiola’s team, with the European Cup next in their sights, is changing the dynamic of a divided football city?
As it happened, the year that City, under Joe Royle’s management, were setting off on their promotion season from the third tier was also the year that I moved to Manchester to start covering the city’s two football teams.
Royle always tried to sound upbeat about a club that had inspired the magnificently titled book Cups for Cock-Ups and not won a trophy since the 1970s. It just wasn’t easy at times to be convinced by his optimism when he also talked about an ailment known as “Cityitis” and had a drinks coaster on his desk that bore the words: “Panic Button”.
It was an early lesson in what to expect for a newcomer to Manchester and, to begin with, it wasn’t easy to understand what my eyes were telling me. Every football fan in the country has heard the jibes about United fans not living in Manchester. But then you move to the city and, blimey, you quickly realise it is a myth. From Chorlton to Cheetham Hill, Burnage to Blackley, Moston to Miles Platting, they are everywhere.
It also became clear that City were proud, in the extreme, that they had an average attendance above 28,000 in the third division. And, more than anything, that the regulars at the Parkside, the Beehive, the Sherwood, the Claremont and all the other Moss Side pubs that were filled with City fans on match days did not appreciate being compared unfavourably to their neighbours.
On the night after Mansfield played in front of a 90 per cent empty Maine Road, United were taking on Bayern Munich in the Champions League group stages. The Daily Mirror’s back page showed City’s sparsely populated stadium and had the headline: “Manchester United will play in front of 55,000 screaming fans at Old Trafford tonight. Meanwhile, at Maine Road…”
At the next City match, it needed police reinforcements to stop fans invading the press box. Journalists were barricaded into the press room at half-time. Four people were ejected. Lindsay Sutton, the freelance journalist who was covering the match for the Mirror, needed an escort to get him out of harm’s way.
All of which can feel like a trick of the mind now City are preparing to win their fifth league title of the last decade and, if everything goes according to plan, put their ribbons on the Champions League trophy.
That would make it 14 trophies in their era of Abu Dhabi-led ownership — or 17 if Community Shields are counted — and for all the jibes about the “Emptyhad” and allegedly poor ticket sales, it is simple logic that a club that has experienced so much success is bound to be expanding, both inside and outside the UK.
In City’s last accounts, for the 2019-20 financial year, the club reported that their average Premier League crowd of 54,219, pre-lockdown, was the highest there had ever been at the Etihad Stadium. Over the course of the year, 32 new branches of their Official Supporters’ Club were formed, taking the total number to 299.
City’s data shows that 70 per cent of match-goers live within a 50-mile radius of the stadium. But a lot has changed since the derby at Old Trafford in 2006 when one team were accompanied by 11 mascots from South Korea and the other made do with youngsters from Collyhurst and Failsworth.
One piece of research, from Nielsen Sports, identifies City as the fastest growing club in the major European leagues from 2011 onwards. The Etihad had visitors from 77 different countries in the last financial year. City have come a long way since Garry Cook, the former Nike executive, was parachuted in to start the revolution in 2008 and complained that, brand-wise, there was “something not quite right about watching us in a bar in Beijing or Bangkok or Tokyo and seeing ‘Fred Smith’s Plumbing, call 0161′” on the pitchside advertising boards.
Realistically, that still makes City a speck in United’s wing-mirrors if we are judging the clubs in terms of global appeal. And just because the “Keep off the Grass” signs at Old Trafford are in six different languages, it would be wrong to think the anti-Glazer protestors who broke into the stadium on Sunday did not have, for the main part, local accents. “I’m here for the buzz,” one boy, no older than 12, explained to Sky Sports, with a delivery that John Cooper Clarke, aka the Bard of Salford, would have been proud of.
man utd protests old trafford
(Photo: Getty Images/Getty Images)
When it comes to the debate about which club has the stronger local roots, however, it is not easy to reach a definitive conclusion because it has been so long since the last serious attempt to settle what is, in reality, an unending argument.
In 2002, Adam Brown from the Institute for Popular Culture at Manchester Metropolitan University published a study — Do You Come From Manchester? — to determine which club had the bigger presence of supporters within the city.
Brown’s analysis was based on information supplied by the clubs in 2001. The study showed that United had more season-ticket holders (7,808) living in an “M” postcode than City (6,678). Some City fans argued that the figures were skewed and noted, conspiratorially, that Brown grew up as a United fan (the author was one of the founding members of FC United of Manchester). Yet it was ultimately a victory for the team from Sir Matt Busby Way. Manchester was red.
There were also some interesting details about the parts of Greater Manchester that tend to be strongholds for one particular club. What it showed was that the western and northern suburbs were often United-orientated, whereas City’s numbers seemed to increase in the east and south. In Sale, for example, there was more chance the locals might prefer to reminisce about Eric Cantona than Georgi Kinkladze. In Cheadle, on the other hand, it would be fair to assume — if the same data applied now — the locals would want to talk about Phil Foden, not Phil Jones.
A lot has changed in the last 20 years, though, and Brown’s analysis is clearly out of date, bearing in mind it goes back to a time when City were based at Maine Road and not even in the same division as their neighbours.
Historian James makes the point in his book (Manchester — A Football History) that the number of season-ticket holders might be only one indicator of a club’s support. “Any survey performed in the future must look at three types of support: season-ticket holders, other attending fans and those who claim allegiance but do not go. Only then will we have a true picture of Manchester’s support.”
manchester city maine road derby
City fans celebrate in their 3-1 win over Manchester United in 2002, the final derby at Maine Road (Photo: John Peters/Manchester United via Getty Images)
His own allegiance is with City but he has also written extensively about United and describes them as the “easy choice” for young Mancunians during the two decades when Ferguson’s teams were at their peak.
“It was the end of Alex Ferguson’s management and the re-birth of City that switched things again,” James tells The Athletic. “Traditional family loyalties remain for both clubs but City tend to be seen as a club moving forward and upwards whereas United, despite their ongoing success, cannot replicate the days of Ferguson. If an analysis of fans was made today, I’d expect it to show that there is still an east-west divide but that, in schools, there is a growing number of City fans.”
There is also independent research, according to City, that will irk the club where — classic Fergie — the most successful manager in British football history once asked Paul Hince, formerly the chief sports writer of the Manchester Evening News (and a devoted Blue), if City’s stadium ought to be renamed “the Temple of Doom”.
The data, City say, shows they have the youngest fan base of all the major European teams. And, though it is tempting to think United and Liverpool might want to challenge this next claim, City’s belief is that they now have the largest number of followers among seven to 12-year-olds in the country.
“I imagine City are winning over many ‘floating’ fans because kids want to be associated with success and City are clearly a much better side at the moment,” Ric Turner, who runs the Bluemoon fans’ website, says of the Manchester split. “Players such as Kevin De Bruyne, Riyad Mahrez and David Silva are a bit more glamorous than the likes of Fred and Scott McTominay.”
True, but United do have Marcus Rashford, Paul Pogba, Bruno Fernandes and various other A-listers.
“I’m sure United would point to their number of TikTok interactions — these things seem to be particularly important to the club — as evidence that it is, in fact, they who are winning the battle for the next generation,” Turner adds.
His own view is that it is roughly a 50-50 split. “There has perhaps been a slight, gradual shift towards City over the last decade. Or at least, you see more kids wearing City shirts nowadays. I don’t think it’s particularly seismic, though.
“Both clubs, as always, enjoy huge local support. There may be slight regional variations — broadly speaking, I think the north and west of the city lean more towards United, with the south and east more City — but it would be a bit disingenuous to try to claim that Manchester, as a whole, is either blue or red.”
Plenty do, though, and both clubs like to peddle the line. City, in particular, rarely used to miss an opportunity in the PR battle. And today The Athletic can confirm what many United supporters have suspected for many years.
“For a long time,” says one former City employee, “every new signing was encouraged to introduce himself by trotting out the line that he had heard, in Europe, South America or wherever, that City, not United, were the team supported by Manchester people. Some of those players had never heard any such thing. But they willingly went along with it.”
That was an era when City’s followers used to mock United with chants of, “You’re the pride of Singapore”. Not any more, though. The modern-day City are dipping their toes into the same market as United, with international trophy tours, pre-season visits to all sorts of far-flung places and social-media accounts catering for 13 languages.
Plainly, though, they still have some way to go to get close to United on that front. On Facebook, United have 73.2 million followers compared with City’s 40.3 million. It is 40.2 million versus 23.5 million on Instagram. On Twitter, it is 25.3 million for United and 9.6 million for their neighbours.
All of which is probably what you might expect given that United like to describe themselves as the biggest club in the world and can boast a sold-out ratio above 99 per cent, pre-lockdown, for Premier League games at Old Trafford since 1997.
This is the club, to put it into context, that talks about having 255,000 official members (United think this is more than any other club in existence), as well as 320,000 visitors every year for their museum and stadium tours, a million visitors annually to their megastore and — though this next claim is often challenged — a waiting list of 80,000 people for season tickets.
For City, how do you even begin trying to make up those kinds of numbers? Television figures show United were involved in 19 of the all-time top 20 Premier League broadcast audiences. Why else do you think the broadcasters chose them for live transmission 58 times in a row, stretching over 12 years, in the FA Cup?
As for social media, #MUFC is the most tweeted team hashtag of all time. United have data that shows, on average, someone is starting an online conversation about the club every half a second.
City, however, say the social-media numbers show the gap between themselves and United has halved since 2014.
On Facebook, for example, City’s account grew by 91 per cent from 2016, when Guardiola joined the club, to 2020.
Indeed, City’s verdict from all the number-crunching is that they are now the fifth most popular club worldwide. And if that is open to debate, it is probably worth pointing out in the interest of balance that so is United’s claim to have 1.1 billion fans worldwide. Or, to put it another way, one in every seven people on the planet.
All that can really be said for certain is that the arguments in Manchester will rage until the year dot.
“Whenever I used to speak to someone outside Manchester and say I was a United fan, they would make some comment about how rare that was,” says Scott Patterson, of the Republik of Mancunia fans’ website. “It never made sense. Anyone who has spent any time in Manchester knows how many Reds are here, just as you should expect.
“United have drawn in bigger crowds on average than City every single season since the war, even when Maine Road was our temporary home, regardless of which team was doing better. United had the highest average attendance in the country when we were in Division Two in the 1970s, which was a long time before people were suggesting our fanbase was largely from down south.
“The fact that we have loads of fans outside Manchester doesn’t negate the fact we have loads of fans inside Manchester, too. City fans needed something to cling to, I guess, and the myth they told caught on.”
This is another detail you learn when you get to know the football folk of Manchester: United fans blame their City counterparts for creating this narrative through alleged bitterness. It is why, on United’s internet forums and fanzine pages, you will often see City described as “the Liars” or “the Bitters”.
Nicky Welsh, who was on United’s books in the 1980s, has lived in Manchester all his life and recently released his memoirs, My United Road, about his dedication to the 20-time league champions.
“I would say, and firmly believe, that the split in Manchester is 70/30 in favour of the Reds and this has been the case since I was a kid,” Welsh says.
“The difference in recent years is that City have had a long-term strategy on and off the pitch. They have got the name of Manchester City recognised further afield and I have no doubt there will now be more out-of-towners and overseas supporters with blow-up bananas.
“But let’s be honest, I think they had more people at the Etihad for COVID-19 tests than they had to City’s matches before lockdown.”
If that last line sounds like a friendly dig, it is probably because it is. Welsh thinks City are “flogging a dead horse” trying to be the most popular club in the city.
“A mate of mine remembers Mike Doyle visiting his school in Moston in the 1970s to give away free tickets to the next City match. One of the kids said to Doyle, ‘Don’t you think we have enough problems around here?’.”
Ultimately, though, it might be City who have the last laugh if they follow up the Premier League title, which can be confirmed if they beat Chelsea on Saturday, by winning the Champions League final against the same opponents on May 29. And City are clearly trying to capitalise on their success by targeting the next generation of fans.
At one game last season, City’s fan zone brought in more than 2,000 visitors, mostly children. The fan zone was voted the best in the country in the Premier League’s annual fan experience survey. The Etihad was the second-most child-friendly stadium.
We might not have a definitive answer, for 2021, to the question about whether Manchester is red or blue, but these are boom years for “the noisy neighbours” and the mind goes back to something Bernard Halford, then City’s life president, mentioned on the 10th anniversary of Abu Dhabi’s takeover.
Halford, who died in 2019, began his association with City in 1972 when he was appointed as secretary. He worked with 22 managers (excluding caretakers) during five promotions, five relegations and, pre-2008, toasted only one trophy, the 1976 League Cup. And he knew how to wind up the red side of Manchester.
“The biggest thing that tells you about what we have become is when you’re in your car,” he said, with a twinkle in his eye. “I used to drive from Royton, where I lived, to Maine Road and I’d count how many shirts or scarves I’d see. Kids on zebra crossings, walking to school, that sort of thing. Red or blue? United or City? They outnumbered us, considerably. Not now, though. Now it can be 10-0, or even more.”
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Well done Citeh 
Champions
Fucking glorious
If you’re happy and you know it and you really want to show it
Stomp your feet.
Congrats lads 
Congrats to Man City
Ah lovely
Zen